That of course that is her prerogative but not specifically what I am calling attention to in this post.
Instead, I am commenting on what Catholic in Brooklyn wrote in her comment area of yesterday's post about (of course) Michael Voris.
Mary the author of Catholic in Brooklyn declares on her blog that if you disagree with Voris "he will be the first to tell you" that "you are not a faithful Catholic and probably on your way to hell" -what? Does anyone actually believe this slander?
She is dead wrong and she's gone too far.
How do I know this? Because I have and sometimes do disagree with Voris and write about my disagreements on this blog (here and here) yet I am fairly sure from my emails with some of the folks at Church Militant TV that they haven't judged me as an unfaithful Catholic or on my way to hell.
How can 'Catholic in Brooklyn' speak for what Voris believes about those who disagree with him?
Crystal ball gazing? Reading innards? Tea leaves? Runes? Psychic medium Theresa Caputo?
Inquiring minds want to know.
In Christ
Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner
Source: http://catholicinbrooklyn.blogspot.com/2015/03/michael-voris-faithful-catholic.html
Thanks for the plug, Julie.
ReplyDeleteMary @ Cathlolic in Brooklyn
That freak show obsession at trashing Voris looks like the haunt of demons.
ReplyDeleteThere are many good Catholics who've been accused of not being Catholic when they've disagreed with Voris on the CMTV Facebook page. Why not ask the page administrator how many people have been blocked from the page? I know of at least a dozen FB friends/acquaintances who've been blocked for disagreeing in a respectful manner and who were accused of not being Catholic and endangering their souls. All because they disagreed on points that had to do with Voris's opinion that were not related to Catholic doctrine. I share Catholic in Brooklyn's concern about the CMTV "apostolate".
ReplyDeleteInteresting that you should lead by pointing out the blog entries of C in B yet say that isn't your point. I think that's exactly your point. You're a fan of Voris. You've 'disagreed' with him twice (though in a very apologetic manner as if you were fearful of displeasing him).
The comment by Catholic in Brooklyn that you cite is in response to my comment under her blog. CMTV FB page administrator blocked me from commenting on the page based on a comment I made on Catholic in Brooklyn's blog. I've never commented on the CMTV FB page so why would the admin block me?
That sort of behavior isn't normal. It's a sign that they cannot tolerate anyone who disagrees with Voris.
BTW...you have a misunderstanding of the definition of slander. You should look it up.
If Voris ignores the FSSP it would be O.K ?
ReplyDeletePriestly Fraternity of St.Peter (FSSP) has changed Church teachings on family catechesis, religious education, salvation, mortal sin, ecclesiology...
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2015/03/priestly-fraternity-of-stpeter-fssp-has.html
Pointing out a blogger going too far isn't a "plug" Mary- but if in your world you believe it makes you or your blog look better than you've completely missed the point- once again.
ReplyDelete--------------
Greetings in Christ TTC!
I'm not sure what the "haunt of demons" is, but I don't think I want to know either! ;)
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R Walle - I expected nothing else from you.
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Catholic Mission I really wish you will one day grasp what it means to STAY ON TOPIC.
This isn't about Voris' opinion of the FSSP or anything else, its about the comments made by Mary about Voris- got it??
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In Christ,
Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner
To R Walle: "Slander" and "lies"
ReplyDeleteFrom the Vatican website:
III. OFFENSES AGAINST TRUTH
2475 Christ's disciples have "put on the new man, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness."274 By "putting away falsehood," they are to "put away all malice and all guile and insincerity and envy and all slander."275
2482 "A lie consists in speaking a falsehood with the intention of deceiving."281 The Lord denounces lying as the work of the devil: "You are of your father the devil, . . . there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies."282
2483 Lying is the most direct offense against the truth. To lie is to speak or act against the truth in order to lead someone into error. By injuring man's relation to truth and to his neighbor, a lie offends against the fundamental relation of man and of his word to the Lord.
2484 The gravity of a lie is measured against the nature of the truth it deforms, the circumstances, the intentions of the one who lies, and the harm suffered by its victims. If a lie in itself only constitutes a venial sin, it becomes mortal when it does grave injury to the virtues of justice and charity.
2485 By its very nature, lying is to be condemned. It is a profanation of speech, whereas the purpose of speech is to communicate known truth to others. The deliberate intention of leading a neighbor into error by saying things contrary to the truth constitutes a failure in justice and charity. The culpability is greater when the intention of deceiving entails the risk of deadly consequences for those who are led astray.
2486 Since it violates the virtue of truthfulness, a lie does real violence to another. It affects his ability to know, which is a condition of every judgment and decision. It contains the seed of discord and all consequent evils. Lying is destructive of society; it undermines trust among men and tears apart the fabric of social relationships.
link: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a8.htm
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteCatholic in Brooklyn is voicing an opinion. If voicing her opinion equals slander in your view, then you must also convict Voris of slander against Cardinal Dolan and Fr Robert Barron. BTW, slander is spoken word. You might want to use the word 'libel' instead when referring to bloggers with whom you disagree. However, you would still be wrong as voicing an opinion doesn't constitute libel or slander. Voris goes a step further by reporting his speculation as fact while, all too often, claiming his information comes from "credible anonymous sources".
ReplyDeleteInteresting how you dismiss me by saying, "R Walle - I expected nothing else from you". Do you know me or are you saying that because you don't like the comments I made on C in B's blog? Do you dismiss entirely the fact that there are many who've been blocked by Voris's FB page admin when they made comments respectfully disagreeing with Voris on the page? How do you account for that? When people have valid support for their position, they're willing to engage in civil debate. When people have no defense for their position, they block those who question them.
Catholic Mission I have warned you several times about spam and keeping ON TOPIC in the comments area. If you want to discuss something else EMAIL me.
ReplyDeleteALL your comments about the FSSP are being deleted because THIS post is NOT about the FSSP- it is about "Catholic in Brooklyn's comments".
If you want to ask Voris about the FSSP go ask him, THIS BLOG is not about answering FOR Michael Voris on the topic of the FSSP or anything else.
If you continue, you will have the distinct honor of being the first and only person I have ever blocked from commenting on this blog.
Good Annunciation Day to you.
In Christ,
Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner
R Walle I know from your comments on "Catholic in Brooklyn" and was expecting you to come here to support Mary, therefore I was not surprised at all to see your comment.
ReplyDeleteClearly you failed to read the Vatican's description of "slander" and "lies".
You apparently are blind to the fact that Mary decided to publicly speak for Michael Voris giving "his" opinion on those who disagree with him. She gave her OPINION as a fact against another Catholic. That is both a lie and slander. Did she ask Michael Voris what he thinks of those who disagree with him?? Did she? If not she is giving her OPINION based on her own bias against Voris, not the facts though she is publicly presenting these declarations as fact. That IS slanderous behavior against a fellow Catholic and a lie.
It is a very sad thing when Catholics are so ignorant of their faith that even when it is placed before their eyes they are blinded to it.
Such Catholics are the "thicknecked/stiffnecked" people Jesus spoke of in the Gospels. Go look it up.
God bless,
In Christ,
Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner
I see why you are such a vociferous defender of Voris. You've allowed emotion to overtake logic and reason. The Vatican's description is about lies and you can't prove that C in B lied. Based on Voris's Vortex videos and the behavior of his employees on the CMTV FB page and in the blogosphere as well as personal emails people have received from Voris's organization, C in B has a valid point.
ReplyDeleteInteresting that you've ignored the fact that Voris's diatribes against Cardinal Dolan, Fr Barron, and others (including his former friends at the Remnant) would also meet your definition of lies and slander.
You discredit yourself when you apply the accusation of lie and slander against one party but not the other.
I will also address this comment of yours, "It is a very sad thing when Catholics are so ignorant of their faith that even when it is placed before their eyes they are blinded to it.
ReplyDeleteSuch Catholics are the "thicknecked/stiffnecked" people Jesus spoke of in the Gospels. Go look it up."
When you make comments such as this, you're essentially accusing someone of being less Catholic than yourself. It's a holier-than-thou attitude that I don't think Christ would endorse.
R Walle, let me try to explain this one more time by breaking it down for you.
ReplyDelete1) Mary @ Catholic in Brooklyn publicly declared that 1) if you don't agree with Michael Voris 100% you are his enemy.
-That is NOT true as I proved with a few of the post I've written about my own disagreements with Voris.
2) Mary @ Catholic in Brooklyn declared that if you didn't agree with Voris 100% HE would be the first to tell you you are an "unfaithful Catholic". This is a lie. In all the Vortex episodes, Mic'd Up episodes, talks around the world and in emails with the folks at Church Militant TV I have NEVER EVER seen or heard Michael Voris state that to disagree with HIM makes ANYONE an "unfaithful Catholic". That is an outrageous lie.
3) Mary @ Catholic in Brooklyn also declared that if you disagree with Voris he will tell you that you are "on your way to hell"- those are HER words, NOT Voris's words. She is slanderous because SHE is putting words in Voris's mouth that he never said. She is NOT quoting Voris, she is making up falsehoods about him and what he believes and publicly declaring them to be truth- they are NOT. This IS slander based on lies.
Had Mary said "I think Michael Voris believes those who disagree with him are going to hell and are unfaithful Catholics" THEN she would showing HER opinion. But she didn't do that. She made a statement as a fact and then clumped in "all of the people in his organization" as being of the same opinion MARY made up.
How about you email Voris and ask HIS opinion on this instead of relying on Mary to give you Michael Voris' opinion?? Is Mary the official spokes person for Michael Voris that she knows HIS opinion on anything?
Have you bothered to ask yourself that?
In Christ and praying for your eyes to be opened,
Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner
Praying for my eyes to be opened so that I agree with your opinions of Voris and C in B? LOL.
ReplyDeleteI've emailed Voris and respectfully pointed out where he was mistaken about Cardinal Dolan's facial expression during the mass at St Francis Xavier. Voris deliberately omits the audio portion every time he shows that video even though it's been pointed out to him that Cdl Dolan shows concern but then reacts positively only when the gay group states they are helping people return to the sacraments. The response from Voris's employee to my email was uncharitable and insulting and the writer questioned my Catholic faith because I didn't agree with Voris's take on Cdl Dolan's expression.
It seems that Voris rarely, if ever, responds directly to any emails or comments on his CMTV or personal FB pages. He has his employees respond. Writing to Voris and expecting a response from him personally is futile. He's insulated himself with a group of employees who respond uncharitably even to sincerely and respectfully submitted questions.
I don't know the person who writes Catholic in Brooklyn. I've read some of her blogs and find them very thoughtful. Most of her blogs that I've seen aren't about Voris. I happened to run across her recent blogs that are about Voris and agree with them based on my own personal experience and assessment of the work Voris produces in his Vortex videos. I don't rely on C in B or anyone other than Church magisterium to form my opinion. I know that C in B is merely stating her opinion as are most bloggers, including yourself.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that, I'm not inclined to debate this further with you. Our opinions differ.
Take care.
Thanks for the entertainment. This exchange is exactly why I stopped reading, commenting, etc. on Catholic in Brooklyn. Life's too short. I've been in Mary's cross hairs too. At some point refusing to engage is the only sensible approach.
ReplyDeleteBesides, blogs are boring when all they do is criticize other Catholic bloggers and apostolates. But it must boost ratings because so many do it.