tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1149438906545544596.post1572154042150501425..comments2023-09-12T03:38:50.647-04:00Comments on Connecticut Catholic Corner: Louie Verrecchio vs Michael VorisConnecticut Catholic Cornerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11640448130713614258noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1149438906545544596.post-60699808401160992762015-02-20T15:59:37.197-05:002015-02-20T15:59:37.197-05:00Kevin - thank you! I pray God that Julie and those...Kevin - thank you! I pray God that Julie and those who read her blog read what you wrote. I hope that Julie,for the sake of clarity, will make a post of what you wrote to counter the disinformation that was spread here.Pattyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08235729013713862652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1149438906545544596.post-41573784171597601312015-02-20T09:26:00.442-05:002015-02-20T09:26:00.442-05:00"This disciplinary level needs to be distingu..."This disciplinary level needs to be distinguished from the doctrinal level. The fact that the Society of Saint Pius X does not possess a canonical status in the Church is not, in the end, based on disciplinary but on doctrinal reasons. As long as the Society does not have a canonical status in the Church, its ministers do not exercise legitimate ministries in the Church. There needs to be a distinction, then, between the disciplinary level, which deals with individuals as such, and the doctrinal level, at which ministry and institution are involved. In order to make this clear once again: until the doctrinal questions are clarified, the Society has no canonical status in the Church, and its ministers – even though they have been freed of the ecclesiastical penalty – do not legitimately exercise any ministry in the Church."<br /><br />So, Julie, do you really understand what this means? Benedict is affirming that the distinction needs to be made between the disciplinary and doctrinal levels. As a matter of discipline, they are not excommunicated, they are without canonical status.<br /><br />As a mater of doctrine (remember, doctrine NOT dogma) certain issues need to be worked out regarding Vatican II. On this point, we must remember that Vatican II never introduced any new Dogmas of the faith, it was a pastoral counsel. <br /><br />In this respect, your references here to the SSPX as being "outside the Church" are completely inappropriate. They are inside the Church, but without excising legitimate ministry. This is absolutely not the same as Luther questioning Dogma's and leaving the Church, as well as completely changing the Mass (he was never consecrating the Body and Blood of Jesus after he changed the words of the consecration).<br /><br />Further, Luther also questioned things like Mandatory Celibacy and the doctrine (teaching) of Limbo. Many Catholics today question Mandatory Celibacy. Most Catholics today also deny Limbo. Just. Like. Luther. <br /><br />Your comparisons to Luther are simply inadequate. The SSPX are in talks even as we speak, the solution is simple, reach an agreement and regularize their canonical status as a society. What are we to do about it? Write books about how they are "more holy than the pope"? NO. Like Louie Verrecchio said, we are to pray and fast that this situation is resolved.Brother de Montforthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03473112403609746738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1149438906545544596.post-7969806153911528432015-02-19T19:09:05.512-05:002015-02-19T19:09:05.512-05:00To Edison and Patty, I leave you with the words of...To Edison and Patty, I leave you with the words of Pope Benedict...<br /><br />http://w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/letters/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20090310_remissione-scomunica.html<br /><br /><br />In Christ,<br /><br />Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner <br />Connecticut Catholic Cornerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11640448130713614258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1149438906545544596.post-36489056868185159742015-02-19T12:21:27.778-05:002015-02-19T12:21:27.778-05:00"Often, too, divine providence permits even g..."Often, too, divine providence permits even good men to be driven from the congregation of Christ by the turbulent seditions of carnal men. When for the sake of the peace of the Church they patiently endure that insult or injury, and attempt no novelties in the way of heresy or schism, they will teach men how God is to be served with a true disposition and with great and sincere charity. The intention of such men is to return when the tumult has subsided. But if that is not permitted because the storm continues or because a fiercer one might be stirred up by their return, they hold fast to their purpose to look to the good even of those responsible for the tumults and commotions that drove them out. They form no separate conventicles of their own, but defend to the death and assist by their testimony the faith which they know is preached in the Catholic Church. These the Father who seeth in secret crowns secretly. It appears that this is a rare kind of Christian, but examples are not lacking. Indeed, there are more than can be believed. So divine providence uses all kinds of men as examples for the oversight of souls and for the building up of his spiritual people. (De vera religione, in Augustine: Earlier Writings, translated by John H. S. Burleigh [Philadelphia: The Westminster Press, 1953], 231.)<br /><br />You may want to consider, Julie, that whereas you call Archbishop Lefebvre into question for putting the salvation of souls first and comparing him to Martin Luther - all that you are doing is posting the list of continued grievances that stir up dissent against the 'lawful' authority. And for what? The scandal and peril they present to souls precisely because they are the 'lawful' authority. Please, be consistent.<br /><br />The reality is Archbishop Lefebvre was right as the rotted fruits of ambiguity allowed in VII documents and now these ongoing Synods are that which is leading souls to peril - if not you wouldn't be posting so vociferously against them.<br /><br />Please, if you admittedly don't understand what Verecchio is talking about, learn first before declaring that which is beyond our scope of authority.Pattyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08235729013713862652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1149438906545544596.post-1362501434557825512015-02-19T12:00:22.474-05:002015-02-19T12:00:22.474-05:00Julie, you write:
"...To abuse the priesthood...Julie, you write:<br />"...To abuse the priesthood by consecrating the Host against the authority of our Lord’s Bride…terrible."<br /><br />What you fail to understand is that the Bride is being belittled and marginalized by those in the position of authority. And cleaving to what the Bride actually teaches, in all its fullness, is no sin whatever as the duty of the Bride is to transmit life (that is the fullness of the Faith) to Her children.<br /><br />You may want to review further on what Bishop Athanasius Schneider has to say on the subject - as his call for the clarification of VII, the official open door that has welcomed in the smoke of Satan, is very much what the SSPX has been stating all along.<br /><br />Also, the SSPX is not in schism, no matter how much folks like Voris may wish to paint it as such. In truth, Voris is only beginning on the long journey of discovery as to why there are deep fissures within the Church. And his castigation of what he terms reactionaries may very well include himself and even the likes of +Burke if the October synod goes the way of ambiguity like VII.<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8iBeaGeuxw<br /><br />http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2015/02/bishop-athanasius-schneider-visits-sspx.html<br /><br />At least the SSPX is consistent in what they oppose - namely the 'authority' to institutionalize ambiguity.The selfsame ambiguity that has those who believe themselves safe beneath the 'full communion' banner reject as the 'lawful' authority imposes all manner of nonsense that abrades and even is directly contrary to what the the Church - the Bride - actually teaches.<br /><br />If the Synod in October proves to be just as damaging as VII, that is it is allowed to be overtaken by a rampant and visible liberal mentality, it would be interesting - if not wholly sad - to see the flip flopping wriggling of those like Michael Voris who will then have to put some kind of spin on the outcome.<br /><br />For it is really easy to castigate others while one has the access to an 'approved' Latin mass and the fullness of Catholic teaching. But as with +Burke, we see that good bishops and clergy can very easily be shunted off. <br /><br />God give us all the strength and the will to discern and not cast stones at those who are our closest allies.Pattyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08235729013713862652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1149438906545544596.post-12317541302923317522015-02-19T08:23:35.801-05:002015-02-19T08:23:35.801-05:00Neither Voris or you are qualified to judge that t...Neither Voris or you are qualified to judge that the SSPX are in schism. They do have an irregular canonical status. Please see the commentary by Chris Ferrara here:<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tze_qOw6ezYEdison Frisbeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00595670494917940925noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1149438906545544596.post-13165121716666888592015-02-17T04:04:10.058-05:002015-02-17T04:04:10.058-05:00Thanks, Julie, for your prayers. I feel peaceful ...Thanks, Julie, for your prayers. I feel peaceful and well and imagine myself protected under the starry mantle of Our Blessed Mother. <br /><br />God bless you on this, your blog apostolate.Mariehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00003965922434128196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1149438906545544596.post-59634941303369744322015-02-16T15:43:32.876-05:002015-02-16T15:43:32.876-05:00Greetings in Christ Marie!
I am so sorry to hear...Greetings in Christ Marie! <br /><br />I am so sorry to hear what has happened to you! I will certainly add you to my prayers and to my special Lenten intentions- we should all pray hard for our Church and Her clergy during Lent. <br /><br />I've had some issues with one particular priest (here: http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/2014/08/follow-up-on-priest-who-refused-to-hear.html ), and while he called me out for writing to the Bishop, he didn't do it from the pulpit (he did it before the Mass procession and after Mass). <br /><br />Offer up these things to Jesus and pray for these priests- how terrible it will be for them on Judgement Day if they don't turn around and make amends before they die! Pray for them, even when they hurt you.<br /><br />God bless.<br /><br />In Christ,<br /><br />Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner <br /><br /><br /><br />Connecticut Catholic Cornerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11640448130713614258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1149438906545544596.post-7119617157792154982015-02-16T13:22:36.962-05:002015-02-16T13:22:36.962-05:00Thank you very much, Julie, for this article. You...Thank you very much, Julie, for this article. You'll never know how much this article helps me. It's the moral support I need this very moment.<br /><br />I belong to a parish with very reverent Novus Ordo Masses in both English and Spanish and was very happy for it. But what made me even happier was when four years ago, our parish opened up the Traditional Latin Mass as provided for by Pope Benedict's Summorum Pontificum. <br /><br />Having been nourished in early childhood in the old Mass and longing for some Latin chants, I joined the TLM congregation assigned to a small chapel belonging to the parish. Because the parish couldn't provide a priest to do the Latin Mass, our diocese borrowed a retired priest from a neighboring diocese to do us the honors.<br /><br />The clues started to show ever so slowly, but I soon woke up to the fact that our Latin Mass has been infiltrated by a motley crew of SSPXers, sedevacantists, "Old Catholics," Palmarians, "independents," and various other "non-papal" elements. I didn't mind it at first, thinking that perhaps it was in Pope Benedict's plan that these people be given a way to reconcile with the Church.<br /><br />In social gatherings outside of our Mass, these elements have been vilifying the "default" Church and unceasingly questioning the validity of the Novus Ordo. I kept telling them that our Mass was given us under Summorum Pontificum, with conditions [in the apostolic letter Universae Ecclesiae] that we respect the Novus Ordo and not question its validity.<br /><br />The manure hits the fan lately when our TLM priest [who himself has jumped ship for a sedevacantist sect some time ago but has reconciled with the Church], led the altar server [who had never seen the inside of a seminary] to be "ordained" in the fake "Old Catholic" church and encouraged him to hear confessions before our Mass. <br /><br />I could not in conscience just sit there and see the sacraments of Holy Orders and Penance [not to mention Holy Communion] desecrated. So I complained in confidence to the pastor. The pastor said he will have to take the matter up with the Bishop.<br /><br />It seems that our TLM priest had learned of my complaint. Last Sunday [Quinquagesima], as he explained St. Paul's Letter to the Corinthians, the priest scolded me from the pulpit, accusing me of lack of charity, of lacking in compassion, of hard-heartedness, of "insulting a legally ordained priest." He even challenged me to come up to the pulpit and state my case [and appologize?], which I refused, saying that women are not allowed to deliver the homily at Mass.<br /><br />At Communion, he again announced to the congregation that since I have insulted an "Old Catholic priest" and "have hatred in my heart," that I will not be given Communion. Whereupon the fake priest came, placed his outretched hand over me an entoned, "I forgive you." But the priest said, "No, no - I will not give her communion."<br /><br />I kept my peace, left the communion rail, and lightheartedly told the Lord that what I was expecting a war against the "left" destroyers of Church doctrine, not the traditionalists. But here I am, a member of the Church Militant, waging a war with the schismatic "right."<br /><br />I left the chapel for the main church and caught the Spanish Mass which was just beginning, and there, I received communion. Last night, I typed up a follow-up letter to my pastor and dropped it in his mailbox.<br /><br />Please pray for me, Julie, and your readers who care. God bless you. <br /><br /> Mariehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00003965922434128196noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1149438906545544596.post-87551067007074942272015-02-15T18:17:38.488-05:002015-02-15T18:17:38.488-05:00Greetings in Christ EGLewis!
I agree that in time...Greetings in Christ EGLewis! <br />I agree that in time the Mass will revert to what worked and what was more reverent and Holy than what we have now. But the Catholic Church hasn't lost its authority from Jesus Christ no matter who the pope is. The authority remains with the Church in good times and bad. Obedience is always rewarded by God. I would LOVE for the SSPX to not be in schism with the Church, and I look forward to the day when (hopefully) it happens, but until it does I will remain obedient to Christ's Church and the authority HE gave Her. <br />Jesus didn't give the SSPX any authority at all- they might be very well intended, but they are disobedient to Christ's Bride. <br />I don't like where the Church is today, but I am confident that She is still Christ's Bride and as such He will protect Her and reward those who stand with her.<br /><br />In Christ,<br /><br />Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner <br /><br />Connecticut Catholic Cornerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11640448130713614258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1149438906545544596.post-16548020515889901992015-02-15T18:07:30.691-05:002015-02-15T18:07:30.691-05:00Julie:
I enjoy your blog, but I'm not so sure ...Julie:<br />I enjoy your blog, but I'm not so sure I can agree with everything you said. <br />I thing we can all know that the Church is in terrible trouble. Personally, I believe that future generations will look back on these years of Vatican II as a very, very dark time...easily equal to anything from the time of Arius. <br />Recall that St Athanasius rejected Arianism and was exiled by his fellow bishops before being excommunicated by the Pope. Yet, today, he's a saint and you never hear of his opponents. <br />In some future time, the church will also have thrown away the ridiculous Norvus Ordo and gone back to the Latin Mass.<br />How will they accomplish this? By embracing the stalwart keepers of the flame such as the FFI, or what little remains of it after Volpi is finished with it, the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter AND THE SSPX. <br />Meanwhile, Kasper, Bergoglio and their ilk will have been tossed into the dustbin of history along with their heresies.E. G. Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16652592168682986762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1149438906545544596.post-15252071546687867182015-02-15T18:06:59.577-05:002015-02-15T18:06:59.577-05:00Thank you Mary's Child Mariann. The issue of ...Thank you Mary's Child Mariann. The issue of the SSPX is a very hot topic because SO many Catholic are so very disappointed with the modern parishes we are struggling to survive in, but THAT IS OUR CURRENT CROSS. We must stay faithful to Christ's Holy Catholic Church in good times and "bad" times. Our obedience WILL be rewarded one day.<br /><br />God bless!<br /><br />Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner <br />Connecticut Catholic Cornerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11640448130713614258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1149438906545544596.post-46845140686499873192015-02-15T15:47:47.921-05:002015-02-15T15:47:47.921-05:00Well written. I agree.Well written. I agree.Mary's Child Mariannhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06637930085304013298noreply@blogger.com