UPDATE AT BOTTOM!!
Recently Fr. Longenecker closed the comment box on his Patheos blog so people are no longer given the opportunity to reply to anything he says- at least not publicly. Personally I hate that, so I have stopped going to his Patheos website- until today when I saw by way of another Catholic outlet his opinion on what he terms “Church of Nasty”.
That reads "Nasty Catholics" vs. "Nice Catholics" to my mind because the "Nice Catholics" belong to the "Church of Nice" where they treat everyone so 'nicely'. On the other hand, he's got the "Nasty Catholics" belonging to the "Church of Nasty". These Catholics are described like rabid dogs on his Patheo's blog 'Standing on my head'.
Because there was no option to leave a comment there, I decided to write a much longer one here on my own personal thoughts of Father Longenecker's "Church of Nasty" view. Since Father gave no links to whom he was specifically thinking of when he wrote his blog post, I can only assume based on what I myself have seen around the web- and nothing I have seen comes close to Father's depiction. Sure, there are lots of disappointed, hurt, angry, confused, fired up Catholics out there filling the blogosphere with their thoughts and opinions but there isn't a single blogger out there that I know of which I would slap that "Nasty Catholic" label on- not one.
So not surprisingly, I see things a bit differently than Father and I mean this with no disrespect. Just my opinion, on his opinion.
Quote:
[Longenecker quote] If not the Church of Nice do we need to be the Church of Nasty?In the Catholic blogosphere and Catholic Church generally I increasingly whiff a very bad smell.It’s what I call the Church of Nasty.Trying to avoid the insipid, spineless and lily livered “Church of Nice” too many Catholic are falling into the other trap of becoming the Church of Nasty.It may be someone sending intentionally misleading headlines to a news aggregator to smear another Catholic, or it might be some guy who’s set up a super nasty website full of horrible attacks on others. It might be a radical traditionalist hell bent on attacking all the modernists and compromisers or it might be a radical progressive intent on attacking all his horrible right wing enemies. It might be some Catholic who has his knives out for Muslims, Jews and Protestants. It might be someone attacking homosexuals, sinners, modernists or feminists. It could be a progressive launching endless attacks on traditionalists, conservatives and Republicans.Sometimes it gets so bad that it feels like, “If you don’t hate the people I hate the same way I hate them, then I hate you too!”Wherever it is coming from and wherever it is going they’re intent on being the Church of Nasty, and let me tell you it can get real ugly.I’d link to some of the poisonous websites out there, but I do not want to send them traffic or soil the unblemished minds and hearts of my dear readers…. [end quote]
Again, since Father gives no links to who or what he is referring, we
are left to assume all sorts of horrid things about Catholics who are sick and
tired of modernist Catholics in the Church who corrupt the teachings and bark “Who are you to judge” at you if you DARE to oppose gay rights.
Now I can see in Father's quote that he places "radical traditionalists" beside "progressives" and Catholics attacking non-Catholics beside a guy's "super nasty website". But lets get to the heart of this. The "Church of Nice" are those who won't speak up against anything, while the "Church of Nasty" (as he refers to them) are those who won't be silent.
That is what it boils down to. This (my post specifically) isn't about progressives vs. traditionalists. It's about those who speak up and those who keep silent about ERROR among the Faithful.
"To recoil before an enemy, or to keep silence when from all sides such clamors are raised against truth, is the part of a man either devoid of character or who entertains doubt as to the truth of what he professes to believe. In both cases such mode of behaving is base and is insulting to God, and both are incompatible with the salvation of mankind."
--Pope Leo XIII, Sapientiae Christianae
What Father neglects to mention is that those opposed to the
Church of Nice didn’t start this "battle" (if you will), but they do intend to finish it because keeping silent is not an option.
They are NOT the “Church of Nasty”, they are THE
CHURCH.
The AUTHENTIC Church- the people
who believe ALL the Church teaches. They don’t want to change the Church, they LOVE HER JUST AS SHE IS. They despise the deceit of those who seek to ruin Her, to
change Her, to mar Her magnificence with their heresies and deceit. They won’t stop opposing heresy, sin or deceit. And they won't be bullied into shutting up and playing "nice" when what they love is so brutally attacked. And they won't stand by in silence while souls are being lost to heresies and scandal.
These Authentic Catholics simply won’t tolerate people twisting the word “charity”
to fulfill their own purpose either. These Catholics have had enough of the Church of Nice.
Father
Longenecker says…
[quote] Therefore, there must be a way between the insipid Church of Nice and the snarling Church of Nasty.To stop and think it through, and give everyone the benefit of the doubt there are two different virtues vying for predominance: the virtue of charity and the virtue of truth.The Church of Nice too often sacrifice truth on the altar of charity and the Church of Nasty too often sacrifice charity on the altar of Truth.There must be a way to be both truth and charitable–both Nasty and Nice. [end quote]
You don’t understand “charity” any better than the Church of
Nice does Father.
It is NOT charitable
to ignore sin or the sinner. It is not
charitable to standby biting your tongue so you don’t hurt someone’s
feelings when their salvation is in jeopardy.
It is not charitable to DO
NOTHING when you see people working to destroy what you hold dear. It is not charitable to ALLOW modernism to
spread in the Church and do nothing.
Charity is love. Love
is wanting the sinner to repent so he/she can have eternal salvation. THAT is what charity is. When progressives WORK to destroy the Faith and the "Church of Nice" remain silent so as not to cause offense that is not charity.
The Church of Nice crowd by their silence actually embraces
liberalism and modernism not only in the world, but in the Church. These people are the lukewarm who will be
vomited out of God’s mouth for refusing to do anything.
Revelation 3 - 15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold, nor hot. I would thou wert cold, or hot. 16But because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold, not hot, I will begin to vomit thee out of my mouth.
The progressive Catholics WORK to bring about
legalized abominations: abortion, gay ‘marriage’, artificial birth control,
embryonic research etc, while the Church of Nice crowd smile at them and wave
at them marching with their gay pride banners.
The Church of Nice crowd wouldn’t dare tell
someone their sin might lead them to hell because it might offend them, so
instead they smile and keep silent as they watch souls going to Hell.
This is NOT charity, it is hatred, selfishness and cowardice.
Authentic Catholics WORK to stop modernism and heresy. Authentic Catholics aren't afraid to risk themselves for the sake of another- even if it comes with a cost.
If Uncle Bobo and his partner invite you to their 'wedding' it is NOT charity to accept and bring them a gift.
The most charitable thing you can do is sit down with them (or write to them if they won't meet with you) and tell them WHY you can't support them and why their relationship is a sin.
That is truly loving them and wanting the best for them.
Buying them a gift and attending their "wedding" because they are "nice guys" and you don't want to "offend" them is NOT an act of charity.
You have an opportunity to HELP someone avoid MORTAL sin...you WILL be held accountable for how you respond to that opportunity.
Charity is loving others enough to RISK being hated,
rejected and mocked because you hold another person's salvation MORE VALUABLE
than your self pride or ego. You are willing to be mocked, humiliated and hated if it helps even ONE soul turn from sin and return to God.
All the evils of the world are due to lukewarm Catholics.
-Pope St. Pius V
The Church of Nice crowd will never risk themselves for
another. They are too selfish and
comfortable to do what Jesus commanded.
Picking up our crosses and following Jesus is NOT easy, and often it is
NOT comfortable. It was not supposed to
be.
When Catholics stand by and say NOTHING when Cardinals lead
parades with gay banners declaring the right to gay ‘marriage’ that is NOT
charity.
When Catholics stand by and do
NOTHING when priests march for women priests it is NOT charity.
When Catholics stand by allowing ‘Catholic’
politicians to support abortion, birth control, gay ‘marriage’ and adoption it
is NOT charity.
When Catholics stand by
and do NOTHING when Catholic clergy cause scandal it is NOT charity.
All the strength of Satan’s reign is due to the easy-going weakness of Catholics.
-Pope St. Pius X
He that sees another in error, and endeavors not to correct it, testifies himself to be in error.
-Pope Leo I
Not to oppose error, is to approve it, and not to defend truth is to suppress it, and indeed to neglect to confound evil men, when we can do it, is no less a sin than to encourage them.
-Pope Felix III
Catechism #826 Charity is the soul of the holiness to which all are called: it "governs, shapes, and perfects all the means of sanctification." 297If the Church was a body composed of different members, it couldn't lack the noblest of all; it must have a Heart, and a Heart BURNING WITH LOVE. And I realized that this love alone was the true motive force which enabled the other members of the Church to act; if it ceased to function, the Apostles would forget to preach the gospel, the Martyrs would refuse to shed their blood. LOVE, IN FACT, IS THE VOCATION WHICH INCLUDES ALL OTHERS; IT'S A UNIVERSE OF ITS OWN, COMPRISING ALL TIME AND SPACE - IT'S ETERNAL! 298
Hmmm...now WHO does that sound like?? Oh yeah, the Church of Nice!
It is not the “Church of Nice” who reminds Catholics they
need to attend weekly Mass. When Catholics
no longer believe the Eucharist is what
the Church says it is, it is not the Church of Nice who correct them. Oh no, that might hurt their feelings.
It is not the “Church of Nice” crowd who encourages Catholics to
go to Confession when they learn a brother or sister has fallen to mortal sin. Oh no, that might upset them and “who are we
to judge” them anyway? If they don’t
believe in sin or the need to confess because they think God is sooo nice that
He won’t allow THEM to go to Hell- the Church of Nice crowd won’t correct that
thinking. Oh no, Hell is for the Hitler’s
of the world, not Catholics who love each other.
What unity do Authentic Catholics (those who believe ALL the
Church teaches) have with the “Church of Nice” crowd who support (by their silence and smiles) unrepented sin and modernism in the Church?
The Church of Nice crowd don’t understand charity because
they have interpreted the word to be an inactive term. Charity is something we
DO. It is action, not in-action. The Church of Nice crowd are in-active pew
warmers.
Catholic Catechism #1792 Ignorance of Christ and his Gospel, bad example given by others, enslavement to one's passions, assertion of a mistaken notion of autonomy of conscience, rejection of the Church's authority and her teaching, lack of conversion and of charity: these can be at the source of errors of judgment in moral conduct.
Do Authentic Catholics get angry when they see Cardinal’s leading parades with gay pride banners?
You bet.
Do Authentic Catholics get angry when they see Catholic priests attending gay pride parades causing scandal to the faithful? You bet.
Do Authentic Catholics get angry when they see Catholic
Bishops more concerned with political issues like immigration reform than
teaching the Faith? You bet.
Do Authentic Catholics get angry when they see "Catholic" politicians supporting artificial birth control, abortion and gay marriage while their priests and Bishops turn a blind eye? You bet!
Do Authentic Catholics get angry when they see authentic parishes being closed down in favor of liberal dying parishes? You bet.
You can call these Catholics “Church of Nasty” if you want
to Father Longenecker, but I will call them AUTHENTIC CATHOLICS and God will never vomit them out of His mouth for being lukewarm Church of Nice pew warmers.
"If I have against me all the Bishops,
I have with me all the Saints and Doctors of the Church"
-St. Thomas Aquinas
In Christ,
Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner
****Since Father Longenecker’s comment box is closed feel free
to use my comment box to share your thoughts on Father’s article or my own. I’d like to hear from both the “Church of Nice”
and the “Church of Nasty”(or as I like to call you, Authentic Catholics) crowds.
Patheos link: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2014/09/church-of-nice-or-church-of-nasty.html
Father Longenecker and I have been going back and forth in emails over this post I wrote. In his first email he indicates I was "biased", "unfair" and had gotten worked up into a "lather un-necessarily".
Why did he feel this way? Because I didn't quote this particular part of his blog post (I reminded Father I linked to his blog so that people could read it in its entirety).
Quote: Some Catholics talk disparagingly of the “Church of Nice”They are referring to the modernist church where indifferentism, complacency and tolerance replace the truly Christian virtues. They object not to niceness, but to a church that is nothing but nice.I’m with them. I can’t stand watered down religion. Modernist Christianity has eviscerated the gospel, removed the supernatural, “de mythologized” the message and turned Catholicism into nothing more than a do gooder religion for the country club set.As one commentator has observed, “This ain’t a religion. It’s a set of table manners.”I have written on this blog constantly of the danger to real Catholicism of removing the miraculous and robbing the church of the one power she has: the supernatural power of the sacraments, the fullness of the magisterium, the power of the Holy Spirit and the fullness of truth in the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.When Some Catholics sneer at the “Church of Nice” I’m sympathetic.Let’s not tame the lion or water down the wine. Let’s hold to a full blooded, rip snortin’, Rooster Cogburn Catholicism.
I'd also like to add that Father gave me the link to the "Church of Nasty" website that influenced his blog post. Personally, I don't even think it is Catholic- and I told him so- seems more anti-Catholic but I will let you all decide.
I will share the offending link with my readers so you can decide for yourselves.
Be warned it is hateful and trashes the Holy Catholic Church.
Here is the link Father Longenecker gave me in email: HERE
Note this hate filled blog has no comments and I can see no followers so I don't think its having much of an impression on anyone.
Father and I were respectful of each other even though we saw this situation very differently. We had (in my opinion) a good conversation about all of this and I am happy he decided to write to me to share his thoughts on what I wrote.
OK, that's it. Just wanted to update this story.
God bless!
Bravo! Well said!
ReplyDeleteSadly, Fr. Longenecker, baits the very bears he seems to call out for being bears. All the while presenting himself as an increasingly popular bear trainer.
ReplyDeleteWith all due respect, one is left to wonder what his true purpose is on Standing On My Head - relaying actual Catholic Truths and being unitive as he purports in his own writings. Or is his purpose to draw crowds to his show and sway those otherwise disinclined to his POV to play the silent part of being slapped with a fish in the face. The good Father can only say I'm nice and equitable so much while in reality acting and writing the opposite. I wonder if he is even aware of the baiting nature of his work.
But removing the combox on his blog, under the guise of his being attacked, has effectively gagged the bad bears... in addition to anyone with the Catholic courage and understanding to call him out in his error when presenting 'bear' facts. Now it would seem he's running wild with his own factoids about defining all manner of things... to include those who by rights are not bears at all. Again, minus any correction. His response, "Fuggetaboutit."
That is an extremely bad place to be for anyone with "unblemished minds and hearts" especially those deemed "my dear readers'. Because readers is all they'll ever be for if they dare to learn or challenge or even ask, out come the labels and nasty innuendo that is often decried within the very articles themselves as being bad. A lovely catch 22.
That said, even with the combox cut off, Father's increasing 'popularity' is going to call for greater clarity. He cannot shut down everyone's combox. So perhaps this is just a learning curve for everyone in how not to go about dialogue - painting oneself as the innocent while laying down bear bait is not that. But that is a Catholic thought - as encouraging another to sin is in fact sinning oneself.
"...Fathers, provoke not your children to indignation, lest they be discouraged."
And God bless YOU, Julie, for providing some format to vent this nonsense division set up those who would teach bears to be dogs or cats or anything else but what God, by His grace, has made us.
Great post, Julie! I'm removing the link to Fr. Longenecker's blog from my site. I'm sure if he read my posts I'd be one of the "nasties." What I want to know is where have all the real men gone? You know, the ones who get out the baseball bat to defend Holy Mother the Church, the bride of Christ? We are, after all, called the Church Militant, but darn few are willing to act like warriors for the faith. I pray to be a warrior like Chesterton who never minced words, but managed to remain friends and challenge those with whom he disagreed completely.
ReplyDeleteWow what a great post....by God's grace of course. I was just listening to Al Kresta on Catholic Radio and he was going on about we should not "attack" bishop Dolan...and was trying to shame the laity for doing so...saying that 1. Dolan/Diocese have very little control over the parade now unlike O'Connor. 2.That it was a provincial decision outside of the Church. I say that is hooey....and your post took the words right out of my head.
ReplyDeleteA Very well stated commentary!! Thank You!!!!!
ReplyDeleteWell said, Julie! No wonder Fr. L closed his combox. Heaven forbid anyone disagree with him, we are then labelled the church of nasty! I have been Catholic my whole life; and I do not like what I see; the terrible disrespect within churches, the kneelers going away, noise, Protestant hymns, devotionals gone, no sense of the sacred, it makes me very sad. And the Latin mass? Where is that?!
ReplyDeleteThis has all happened under the guise of 'reform' but it is much more than that. The bishops have ruined so many things; it's a wonder any of it will ever be made right again!
Thank you so much!In a survey from our diocese I said it was a sacrilege that politicians who support and vote for gay marriage and abortion were given the Eucharist even after Cardinal Raymond Burke issued a letter instructing Bishops that it must stop. Silence was my reply. Last weeks first reading from Ezekiel clearly says we will suffer if we see someone sinning and don't tell them. I just don't get it. Do the Bishops and Cardinals think they won't be held accountable? Maybe they don't believe in the Church. I can't understand it. I am sad for our Church and pray God will turn their hearts. Thank you for speaking for many of us.
ReplyDeleteWe can't pursue Truth, unless we're able to freely converse, even when people disagree...as such, I'm a member of the "Nasty Church" you know, those that believe that the Church should be the Church...
ReplyDeleteGod bless you for all that you do.
Muller-Fellay Meeting: Cardinal Muller will not accept Vatican Council II without the irrational premise and he wants the SSPX, FFI to use the false premise with the Council and Catechism ?
ReplyDeletehttp://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2014/09/muller-fellay-meeting-would-cardinal.html
Dear Fr Longenecker:
ReplyDelete"I know your works; I know that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either cold or hot. So, because you are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, I will vomit you out of my mouth." - Revelations 3:15-16
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
"Tolerance is a virtue of a man with no convictions." - G.K.Chesterton
Chesterton would not abide the "creed" of Fr Longenecker:
ReplyDelete"Our real error in such a case is that we do not know or care about the creed itself, from which a people’s customs, good or bad, will necessarily flow. We talk much about ‘respecting’ this or that person’s religion; but the way to respect a religion is to treat it as a religion: to ask what are its tenets and what are their consequences. But modern tolerance is deafer than intolerance. The old religious authorities, at least, defined a heresy before they condemned it, and read a book before they burned it. But we are always saying to a Mormon or a Moslem – ‘Never mind about your religion, come to my arms.’ To which he naturally replies — ‘But I do mind about my religion, and I advise you to mind your eye.’" - G.K.Chesterton
"In real life, people who are most bigoted are the people who have no convictions at all...
Bigotry may be roughly defined as the anger of men who have no opinions." - G.K.Chesterton
The article was great and so were all the comments (so far). Amen and thanks.
ReplyDeleteVery well said Julie! Enough is enough and I challenge every authentic Catholic out there to stand up to to this Church of Nice nonsense and defend Holy Mother Church.
ReplyDeleteGood job Julie! Personally I guess (according to Fr) I'm from the Church of Nasty, but hey, I'm in good company, because so is Mother Angelica! In case you haven't seen them, Michael Voris had several clips on her 'rants' from years ago when she was taking errant Bishops apart limb by limb. She was BEAUTIFUL to watch!!! She told them in no uncertain terms that if they kept spewing out their 'false church' they would burn in the depths of h _ _ _. Sooooo........I'm with MOTHER!!
ReplyDeleteOh and BTW, I never bother going over to Fr.'s site anymore. Thanks for the update.
ReplyDeleteYour post said it all. Benedict the Beloved said, "the Church will become smaller, but purer." I can guarantee that smaller Church won't be the Church of Nice. Our Lady of Good Success promised that after all the horrors and abominations of the latter part of the 20th Century, the Church would arise stronger than ever. In the meantime, I want to run in and start turning over tables. Keep up the good work. Peace and Blessings
ReplyDeleteThank you all for the wonderful responses!
ReplyDeleteIt's great to see so many AUTHENTIC Catholics who won't be silenced. :)
God bless you all!
In Christ,
Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner
Great post!
ReplyDeleteJulie, I applaud your approach. If Longenecker wants to silence feedback, then let the feedback sprout up elsewhere. Being nice and obedient only lets the bad triumph.
ReplyDeleteP.S. Fr Longenecker deserves a small pat on the back for replying to your emails. So that's a +1
ReplyDeleteBut then he should get a -20 or worse for defending Dolan.
Kudos to Fr. Longenecker for having a dialogue with you Julie. With regard to being worked into a 'lather' unnecessarily, however, I do wish Fr. would see that his generalizations are not helpful. (Or the patronizing off-to-the-corner verbiage.)
ReplyDeleteIn fact, these generalizations contribute very much to the misunderstandings of what he says he doesn't like (watered down Catholicism) and how he actually presents himself in his writing.
So, Father, if you're reading, please back up the Rooster Cogburn Catholicism with the real deal. That way folks can SEE you are John Wayne, not have to be convinced you are the Duke because you seem to be playing a very different character while being John Wayne behind the scenes.
Hopefully, Julie, Father will continue following your blog and correspond minus the broad brush that doesn't help mend Catholic fences. And sorry, but that is the outreach that should be the main focus in my opinion. Get all hands on deck and muster the troops to evangelize the integrity of the Catholic ship without having to fire a single shot - or in this case an ambiguous word.
Julie, your best yet! God bless you.
ReplyDeleteLongenecker is a coward. Period.
ReplyDelete