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August 30, 2013

Fr.Longenecker vs Michael Voris

Quote: "If the faith is in imminent peril, prelates ought to be accused by their subjects, even in public."-St. Thomas Aquinas


Today Fr. Longenecker THOUGHT he had a bone to pick with Church Militant’s Michael Voris of the widely popular “The Vortex” internet show “Where lies and falsehoods are trapped and exposed” as the motto goes. 

Please read Father Longnecker's post "Do we need Michael Voris" if you haven' already.

I believe, he was wrong.


You see, Fr. Longenecker didn’t like it when Michael Voris mentioned what was happening in the “blogosphere” over the dire straits of “CatholicAnswers” – they want your money because they are (according to some very unhappy Catholics) over paying those who work for Catholic Answers with six figure pay checks.

Did Michael Voris start the mess?  No.  
Does Fr. Longenecker care? No.

You see the hornets’ nest erupted on Kathy Schiffer’s Patheo’sblog on August 19, 2013 when she blogged- no make that begged- Catholics to send their money to Catholic Answers to keep them afloat.  At such time, over one hundred UNHAPPY Catholics flooded her comments area with all the reasons they would NOT support Catholic Answers anymore.  

The biggest reasons stated by the unhappy Catholics were 1) Catholic Answers over pays its staff and 2) that Catholic Answers had disrespected (in assorted ways) Catholics who still like the Latin Mass.

Here is where I come into the picture.  
I read the comments (on Schiffer's blog) – for NINE DAYS and watched the arguing among Catholics back and forth over Catholic Answers worthiness to receive a dime from anyone anymore.  And then, I moved along in my daily blog reading to Creative Minority Reports (the date is now August 27, 2013- NINE days AFTER Schiffer stirred the hornets’ nest) where I saw yet another plea for money on behalf of the sinking Catholic Answers so I left a comment linking to the brawl on Kathy Schiffer’s Patheos Blog which started it all. 



Yes, that was me.  Note the date and time- days BEFORE Michael Voris said a single word.  The silence from Fr. Longenecker is only broken when Voris joins the discussion.  Bone to pick?  I think so.

Readers from Creative Minority Report then began showing up on Kathy Schiffer’s blog to join in the chaos on and after August 27, 2013- again days before Voris said a peep about anything. 

Does Fr. Longenecker care?  No.

On August 29, 2013 – TEN DAYS after the blogosphere erupted over Catholic Answers, Michael Voris mentions it briefly in one of his Vortex episodes, he says (in part):

“a war in the Catholic blogosphere has broken out over the news coming out of Catholic Answers that they are in dire financial straits and are laying off staff due to a steep drop in donations and other revenue.
Catholic Answers has done fine work in the area of apologetics and is to be commended for any souls they might have influenced to come to the Catholic Faith. Bravo!  But... a few weeks ago, it seems like they made a major miscalculation... or perhaps in blunder... highlighting something we have talked about here recently in the Vortex.  It seems they may have insulted a large portion of their own audience by doing... what appeared to many... of making fun of traditional Catholics in a Catholic Answers Live radio show heard from coast to coast.”

Please note, Voris is merely reporting what was said on Kathy Schiffer’s blog TEN DAYS EARLIER.  He COMPLIMENTED much of the work Catholic Answers has done over the years.  Voris points out that SOME people who used to support Catholic Answers are now refusing to give them a dime because those ex-supporters felt “insulted” by Catholic Answers.  This is what many people said in the comments on Kathy Schiffer’s blog.  Voris is reporting what was said, nothing more.



Suddenly Fr. Longenecker is outraged that someone among the Catholic laity would DARE to question Catholic Answers!  Fr.Longenecker on his blog made it sound as if Voris had a personal bone to pick with Catholic Answers and was calling them out or trying to bring them down.  Nothing and I mean NOTHING could be further from the truth as you can see in the video for yourself.

Since when is REPORTING what is happening in the blogosphere off limits to the Catholic laity?  Can Fr. Longenecker answer that?

I would remind Father Longenecker of ... "The laity are given this special vocation: to make the Church present and fruitful in those places and circumstances where it is only through them that she can become the salt of the earth." -Lumen Gentium Ch.4

Now about the MONEY.

Fr. Longenecker takes Michael Voris to task for bringing up how much money Catholic Answers makes and how much its staff makes.  Well guess what Father?  That information was given out on Kathy Schiffer’s blog on August 27, 2013 at 4:33 pm, by a commenter going by the name: “A new era in the Church  

Michael Voris did his story on the 29th of August, days after the information was already made public on Schiffer’s Patheos blog.

So WHY didn’t Fr. Longenecker take Schiffer or her readers to task over this? My guess?  Perhaps Voris' dedication to “trapping and exposing lies and falsehoods” in the Catholic Church where ever they may be found has stung Father at one time or another?

Only Father can truly answer that, perhaps he will one day.  But today, I want to set the record straight on who said what and when.

So to review… 

1)    Kathy Schiffer of Patheos begged Catholics to hand money over to Catholic Answers. (August 19, 2013)
2)    Unhappy Catholics protested the plea and spilled the beans on why they were not happy with Catholic Answers all week.
3)    Creative Minority Reports also sounded the plea for money for Catholic Answers. August 27, 2013.
4)    I posted a link on Creative Minority Reports to Schiffer’s blog on August 27th to show what unhappy Catholics were saying.
5)    Michael Voris mentions the situation on this Vortex show TEN DAYS after the fact- August 29, 2013.
6)    Fr. Longenecker attempts to slap down Michael Voris with a post entitled “Do we need Michael Voris” on August 30, 2013.

I think the question Catholics are answering with a LOUD “NO” is that many no longer need or want Catholic Answers.  And they are making that loud and clear with their wallets.

Now for the second part of what I have to say…

WHY Father Longenecker, would a priest ask ANYONE if another human being is “needed” or not?

Did you not hear Pope Benedict when he said “Each of us is the result of a thought of God. Each of us is willed. Each of us is loved. Each of us is necessary.”

Why would you think we wouldn’t “need” Michael Voris?

Let me tell you what we DON’T need Father; we DON’T need U.S. Bishops sticking their noses into U.S. politics and elections.  We don’t need 'nuns on the bus'.  We don’t need Bishops working on immigration reform.  We need Catholic priests TO BE PRIESTS.

Do you all know what that is anymore?  Have you forgotten what Christ sent you all out into the world to do?  It wasn’t immigration reform Father!  It was saving souls, preaching the Gospel, teaching and correcting the Faith to the laity.  THAT is what we need YOU the clergy to do.

So you can waste your time in politics, riding buses with nuns or even pointing your fingers at the laity like Michael Voris for LOVING our faith and TRYING to make a difference all you want, but one day, one day Father YOU (and all our “Fathers” in Christ) will have the finger of God pointed at you and then you will answer for why you weren’t doing what Christ commissioned you to do.


Good thing even priests go to Confession.

And Father if you think I was too harsh with you I do apologize, sometimes even priests get me fired up when I feel an injustice was done to someone. And I do believe Father, that you've done an injustice to Michael Voris.

May God forgive us all and bless us – we need it.

In Christ,
Julie

LINKS:



Vortex text: http://www.churchmilitant.tv/scripts/vort-2013-08-29.pdf

http://www.catholic.com/



56 comments:

Linda Santoro said...

Michael Voris is right!

TTC said...

You have nailed it.

It is hard to read Fr. Longenecker's gross mischaracterization of Voris' video and conclude it was done in good faith.

It is true what they say about the road to hell.

Lynne said...

The Cure d'Ars eat 3 potatoes a day and spent hours hearing confessions. I wish more priests would follow his lead.

Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner said...

Thank you all for your comments. When we see an injustice I believe it is important that we speak up and not remain silent.

God bless you all.

susan said...

Excellent synopsis Julie. Thank you!

Jay Boyd said...

Bravo!

Tancred said...

Nice sheep suit.

Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner said...

Baaaaaaaa... baaaaaaaaaa... :)

response to Tancred:

Matt.25:33 "He will put his SHEEP on his right side, and the goats on the left."

God bless! Thanks for sharing your point of view.

Christine said...

Thank you for expressing so clearly what I felt when I read Fr. Longenecker's diatribe. I don't always agree with Michael Voris, but he always makes me think, and this time I think he was right on!

Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner said...

Thank you Christine.

Many may be surprised to hear that I don't always agree with Voris either, sometimes I think he can be TOO harsh, but we are ALL human!

If being too harsh in your passion for Christ's Church is your only sin, I say you're doing pretty good!

It is the lukewarm Christians whom God will vomit out on Judgment day (Rev.3:16)- at least we know Voris won't be one of those! :)

Ulysses Dismas said...

I think Fr. Longenecker's post was about where we "need" people like Voris in the position he has built up for himself as a human being, not whether we need in the existential sense of his existence as a human being. Furthermore, if you have actually read anything Fr. Longenecker has written, other then his comments against Michael Voris, I think you would see that he would be against the "nuns on the bus" and assorted claptrap coming from the liberal wing of the Bishops' Conference as well.

VFAOzzy said...

Outstanding! We need priests to be priests and the laity to bring souls to the priests in order to receive the sacraments. Keep up the God work Michael Voris and Julie!!!

Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner said...

Hello Ulysses!

I think the scathing and condescending WAY that Fr. Longenecker described Voris was perfectly clear. He WANTED to hurt and humiliate Voris- he failed because he only made himself look bad- especially as he is a priest.

He COULD have said what he did a more Godly and priestly way- which many of us Catholics hope for in our clergy as, after all, they are supposed to be setting the example for the laity as Saint Paul did in the Scriptures.

As far as reading Fr.Longenecker, I have followed Father on his blogs and Twitter for a long time. I see what he writes, how he writes and what he avoids. That's his prerogative as the song goes.

But when I believe he (or anyone else) unjustly attacks someone I am going to call them out on it.

I still hope that soon Father will feel regret for the words and the way he spoke. I believe he was wrong.

God bless,
Julie

ippy said...

I have followed Michael Voris for the past year now,likewise with Father Longenecker. I have learned a great deal from both in relationship to the Catholic Church and her teachings. I am a Catholic Convert, once a Baptist, to Lutheran, then Evangelical Non denominational. It was through the grace of our Lord, that He spoke to my soul, and the lenses that blinded my eyes to see and believe John chapter 6, Discourse of the Eucharist and viewing Mother Angelica on EWTN. Catholic answers provided a wonderful resource in learning the Catholic faith, helping my understanding and eventually leading to my embrace of Catholicism.that being said, never place any man on a pedestal, eventually their fallen human nature will cause them to fall. As a Protestant I viewed this infighting if you will all too frequently, the way to resolve it was to leave the church you were attending and find another denomination that was more to your liking. But within the Catholic Church, that option does not exist, when we believe that the fullness of Gods truth subsides within Her. I could never leave Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, for He nourishes me so that I have the graces to carry on each day among life's struggles. So the attacks against ones over son will always exist even among the Body of Christ. Bravo to Michael Voris for exposing the truth, someone has to do the dirty job of making us uncomfortable, so that we can engage the battle, while seeking holiness through the Sacraments. And blessings to Fr. Longenecker, he too has a gift that is beneficial for the Church and Her members. Both these men will fall from time to time, the Sacrament of Penance is available. I will continue to follow both Fr and The Vortex, as both have deified my soul and have been instrumental in guiding me towards sanctity. God Bless +

ippy said...

Last sentence should have read "edified my soul" spell checker is rude!

ppG said...

Father Longenecker's comments were typical to how the Catholic Church responds: Blame the Laity.

Examples: At the height of the pedophile priest accusations, the Church required all laity workers to take VIRTUS training. When Catholic Answers insults faithful Catholics, they blame the laity for withholding funds.

MV's message is nothing more than a wake up call to all the faithful for the many conflicts of interest and mismanagements that are taking place.

A prophet is often rejected by his people.

Linda Clerkin said...

CT Catholic just became must reading for me with this. :)
thank you, Julie.
In my former life I was a journalist myself. Local. I toooootally get what Michael Voris did and does. Totally.
Thank you, Michael.

I think Vat. II was the calling up of the laity. The Holy Spirit is smart that way, you know. :)

Father, you and Voris are on the same side. Please, the hour is very late to be going after a man, flawed like us all, who is only saying what we are thinking and know anyway.

Pax et bonem.

Joanna Stafish said...

Wow, Julie, that was awesome! I myself love MV (not to the point of thinking him infallible though)and really miss Mother Angelica on EWTN.

Steven Schloeder, PhD, AIA said...

Julie: This is a most bizarre thread.

If I understand you correctly, you seem to think that Fr L is wrong to criticize MV for repeating something to his wide audience that was posted in a combox on KS's blog a few days previously.

Is that really the long and short of your complaint?

Also, I can't understand why you think KS should be responsible for combox comments by others ("So WHY didn’t Fr. Longenecker take Schiffer or her readers to task over this?"). Perhaps you can explain that (I wouldn't hold you accountable for something in your blog combox).

Thanks,

Steve

Famijoly said...

Julie, from following both Michael Voris and Fr. Dwight Longenecker for years now, I sense that your statements directed toward Fr. Longenecker about bishops meddling in political elections and immigration issues and "nuns on the bus" is like preaching to the choir, there does appear to be a certain animus toward Mr. Voris in Fr. Longenecker's blog, and you are right in pointing it out.

First, it is now abundantly clear that Fr. Longenecker lifted the August 29 episode of "The Vortex" on ChurchMilitant.TV outside of its context (reporting developments in the blogosphere that had been brewing for 10 days) to zero in on the reporter, the messenger, namely Michael Voris. The title of Fr. Longenecker's column says as much, "Do We Need Michael Voris?"

I took Michael's reportage to be part of an examination of why even apostolates such as but not limited to the ones he named in The Vortex -- Catholic Answers, EWTN, Ave Maria Radio, etc. -- who have done and still do good work for the Church will only go so far in examining the sources of crisis in the faith. Perhaps Fr. Longenecker is in that camp as well, and Voris' work over the years has interiorly rubbed him the wrong way because Voris shines the bright light on the line Fr. Longenecker will not dare cross in his own writings and homilies. Only God and Fr. Longenecker know how true that is.

In any case, Julie, you've hit on a journalistic critique that strikes at the heart of the matter, I believe. Fr. Longenecker's tone is way too intense and too focused on Voris for his latest blog column to be the result of mere journalistic sloppiness in not checking out the full story that led up to The Vortex of August 29.

Dismas said...

I've already donated to Catholic Answers, but this article gives me great pleasure in donating again. Shame on certain self-reverential "Catholics" that would withhold money because they find themselves insulted. Those that can't take a little criticism just can't be trusted. These are the same self-reverential "Catholics" that never miss an opportunity to rejoice in the constant insult of others. Yes, thank you for this article, it's my great pleasure to donate to Catholic Answers yet again!

Restore-DC-Catholicism said...

Julie, well-stated.

Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner said...

To VFAOzzy: Thank you.

To ippy: That was beautifully said and I want to share that I too have benefited (as Michael Voris stated)from reading Catholic Answers over the years. This was NOT about bashing Catholic Answers, but merely about WHY SOME Catholics no longer want to donate to them.

To ppG: I don't know if Fr.L's plan was to blame the laity, I am more under the impression Fr.L didn't do his homework, heard a blip and off with it in a rant. But perhaps I am wrong and he did do his homework and still felt the need to talk so disrespectfully to a Catholic in good standing with the Church. If that is the case, my respect for him won't be what it should be for a Catholic priest. But until proven otherwise, I prefer to believe Fr.L blundered by not doing his homework and HOPEFULLY he will feel remorse and apologize to Voris. That is what I hope to see happen.

To Linda Clerkin: Why THANK YOU! What a lovely thing to hear! And I agree with your thoughts on this.

To Joanna Stafish: Me too! I dearly miss seeing new shows by Mother Angelica, but at least we have the classics! :)

To Steve Schloeder: It is bizarre to you because you don't seem to be grasping what I wrote.
1) I clarified the timeline on who said what and how it snowballed- because I believe Fr.L still doesn't know.
2) The "long and short" of it, is Fr.L spoke VERY disrespectfully about Voris for NO REASON. There is NOT justification for what he said. Voris only REPEATED what Catholics said in the COMMENTS under Kathy Schiffer's blog. IF Fr.L had an issue with WHAT was said- WHY didn't he say something to THE PEOPLE WHO MADE THE COMMENTS? YOu see now? Fr.L took out his rant on Voris who did NOT say those things, he merely REPEATED what was said on someone else's blog.
3) My last issue was Fr.L questioning if the world "needed" Voris in it.
That is HORRIBLE and SHAMEFUL for anyone to say, much worse for a PRIEST representing Christ on earth!
Those were my points and I am sorry you were unable to grasp them.

God bless!

Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner said...

To Famijoly: Thank you for all your comments. My comments about clergy and nuns in politics wasn't saying that Fr.L did those things personally, rather I was saying if Fr.L wasn't to point his finger and RANT at someone, the liberal clergy and nuns SHOULD be his target, NOT a Catholic in good standing with the Church who actually believes and SUPPORTS the Church's teachings as Voris does.
Overall, I am saying there are LOTS of liberal targets who NEED correcting and to be taught by clergy who UPHOLD the Catholic Faith, FrL would do well to turn his finger at those people. Of course that is only my opinion, obviously others disagree.
Again, thank you very much for all you've shared. God bless!

To Dismis: Good for you! I don't have anything personal against giving CA money- if you read Kathy Schiffer's blog comments you will see I was NOT one of the people telling others not to give. I have used CA over the years and found some good info there. If you want to put CA in your will, you go for it. Others will do the same with Michael Voris.
There is PLENTY of room in the Church for people to do both.

God bless.

And thank you to everyone who took the time to stop by and read and share your thoughts. I love hearing from you- even if we disagree. :)

May God bless you and keep you safe!

Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

Steven Schloeder, PhD, AIA said...

>>To Steve Schloeder: It is bizarre to you because you don't seem to be grasping what I wrote.

Perhaps you ought to make your points more succinctly and clearly, rather than blaming your readers for trying to figure out what your message really is.

>> 1) I clarified the timeline on who said what and how it snowballed- because I believe Fr.L still doesn't know.

If that is so, then why all the vitriol at Fr L? A simple and factual recounting of the timeline, without bombastic rhetoric (e.g., "Suddenly Fr. Longenecker is outraged that someone among the Catholic laity would DARE to question Catholic Answers!), or calling into question his motives or his character ("Does Fr. Longenecker care? No." ), would make it far more easy for me to believe that.

>>2) The "long and short" of it, is Fr.L spoke VERY disrespectfully about Voris for NO REASON.

Obviously, there is a reason. You just don't like it. The reason is that MV seems to be personally attacking people and telling the world their financial matters in what seems to be an effort to smear them and call into question their credibility.

>> Voris only REPEATED what Catholics said in the COMMENTS under Kathy Schiffer's blog.

So? I should repeat something uncharitable said about you or anyone else simply because it was on a blog combox? Is that a serious standard of journalism for you? Is that a serious moral defense against CCC 2478 for you?:

"To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor's thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:

"Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another's statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. And if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love. If that does not suffice, let the Christian try all suitable ways to bring the other to a correct interpretation so that he may be saved."


>> IF Fr.L had an issue with WHAT was said- WHY didn't he say something to THE PEOPLE WHO MADE THE COMMENTS? YOu see now? Fr.L took out his rant on Voris who did NOT say those things, he merely REPEATED what was said on someone else's blog.

No, that still makes no sense. Comboxes are not the sort of medium that MV works in. He announced it on his website and his YOUTUBE videos. MV makes his coin doing this stuff. It's his business model. So of course go to the one who is most loudly trumpeting the error, rather than every little combox that might have contributed to that message.


>> 3) My last issue was Fr.L questioning if the world "needed" Voris in it.
That is HORRIBLE and SHAMEFUL for anyone to say, much worse for a PRIEST representing Christ on earth!

But that not even a reasonable reading of what was intended. The message is ""Do we need Michael Voris -- acting as he does as a professional Catholic who seems to be a muckraker" (whether he is or not -- the point here is how YOU are misreading it). Not "Do we need Michael Voris 'as a Christian'/ 'as a member of the Body of Christ' / 'as a loving human being'", etc.

There is nothing shameful or horrible about it -- no more than your own vitriol against Fr. L.

>>Those were my points and I am sorry you were unable to grasp them.

I was really trying to not assume the worst -- especially given your motto "Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil." I was trying to apply CCC 2478 to you as well.

We all owe each other that in Christian charity: MV to the Bishops and to KK and CA, Fr L to MV, you to Fr L and KS, me to you.

Pax,

Steve

Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner said...

Steven Schloeder writes:
If that is so, then why all the vitriol at Fr L? A simple and factual recounting of the timeline, without bombastic rhetoric... [snipped for length]

LOL! You're kidding right? EVERYONE else understood it perfectly, you can't grasp it so I have to post my blog to suit your understanding?
If you are looking for coddling you've come to the wrong place.

God bless Steve, I shall pray to God to give you wisdom and understanding so surfing the Internet won't be so challenging to you in the future.

In Christ (and on my way to Confession)
Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner



Tancred said...

The positive side of this from my pov is that more Catholics are becoming aware of the false prophets who would fool the elect, even if it were possible, hirelings who break out in chorus whenever the Leftist death grip being exerted on American Catholicism is challenged.

Dismas said...

Steve, you make some very good points. I'm not sure of the exact intent or premise of this opinion piece, but I refuse to be falsely led to believe that the intent of the opinions of Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Catholic Priest, are evil and that the intent of the opinions of Michael Voris, self reverentially annointed prophet of truth and cult hero, can never be evil.

Steven Schloeder, PhD, AIA said...

>>This is a Catholic blog, please keep your comments respectful even when you disagree.

So that applies to everyone except yourself?

John said...

I must vigorously disagree with your appraisal, Julie.
I read Fr Longenecker's column as well as your own. I thought Fr L's comments..more or less reflected the ideas that I've been puzzling over since watching The Vortex on Friday morning.
I can't agree that Fr L hit Voris unfairly. Considering that Voris, himself, said quite a little that I consider pretty inappropriate --not to mention irrelevent--I'm hard pressed to explain why Fr L's response would be considered vindictive.

I'm mostly seeing a great deal of back and forth over..what?
Alleged compromises of values? Methods of doing business? Money?

I'm beginning to have a tough time understanding why so many people have begun internet-yelling at so many others.


Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner said...

to Steven: That was written because people were leaving PROFANITY on my blog and I kindly asked them to refrain from it.
If you want profanity go somewhere else, it is not tolerated HERE.

To John: I have yet to see what Voris said wrong, why don't you point out what Voris said that was "inappropriate" on the Vortex. I put the link to the text of the show at the bottom of this article. Please show me what Voris said that you feel was "inappropriate".
Thanks.

God bless.
Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

JoAnna Wahlund said...

Two articles that (1) explain why Voris' comments were so off-base and (2) shed some new light on the situation (in a nutshell, Voris applied for the job of CAL host in 2009 but did not get it, so his current vendetta may be motivated by sour grapes. Why would he WANT to work for an organization he thinks is so terrible?)

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/theanchoress/2013/08/30/the-worker-is-worth-his-wages-and-perhaps-retirement-too/

http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2012/11/michael-voris-verbal-destruction-of-new.html

Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner said...

To JoAnna Wahlund: YOU claim Voris thinks CA is terrible - you CONTRADICT what Voris ACTUALLY SAID!!

Voris QUOTE: "Catholic Answers has done fine work in the area of apologetics and is to be commended for any souls they might have influenced to come to the Catholic Faith. Bravo!"
Now, THAT my dear is what Voris actually said in his video.
How on God's green earth you can turn that around to say anything else is beyond me.

How about dealing with FACTS rather than OPINIONS when you want to put words in someone's mouth?

God bless.
Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

JoAnna Wahlund said...

He accuses CA of sinning by overpaying their employees (and thus misusing donated funds), but he was happy enough to try and get a job there.

Orchard Ville said...

"He accuses CA of sinning by overpaying their employees (and thus misusing donated funds), but he was happy enough to try and get a job there."

Are you, by any chance, implying/concluding that Mr. Michael Voris applied for the job after he looked the staff's salary up???

Viva Cristo Rey said...

Great job on giving us the facts.

Thanks Julie.

I think Catholic answers, EWTN, and Al, and Fr. Longnecker are all fantastic - but clearly Michael Voris is doing great work as well.

We need them all and we need to face facts that what Michael said in his video is on the "money."

Katalina said...

I have two views on this. EWTN in recent years along with AMR and CA have a knack for shying away from the crisis in the Church and the role Clerics play in it. As for Trades EWTN has itself not broadcasted one since 2009. Most of their hosts are of the Praise and Worship type so that in itself may give them the opinion they are not wanted in the Church at all.

JoAnna Wahlund said...

Given that CA salary info is public knowledge, I'd be very surprised if he didn't. I'm sure the question of salary was raised at some point during the interview process as well.

Orchard Ville said...

"Given that CA salary info is public knowledge, I'd be very surprised if he didn't. I'm sure the question of salary was raised at some point during the interview process as well."

Alright, then, so that's simply a speculation on your part. Thanks for the clarification.

cramirez11 said...

Thanks Julie. God Bless you and Michael Voris.

Rad Therapy Catholic said...

Thank you for your post, Julie.

I think that I might be able to speak a bit towards this issue. Our Mother used Mother Angelica and CA to bring me back to the Church, and if I had the money, I would still give to CA, even after hearing how much they make. (it can be said that in order to keep the best talent, they need to be compensated)

Father L. However, has crossed my radar before as someone it requires care to pay attention to. I have in the past really enjoyed him, until I heard an interview on the radio, shortly after the Holy Father confirmed the existence of a gay lobby in the Vatican.....

Father L. took the shocking stance that there was Zero evidence that the lobby included priests, or even more absurdly, bishops. It was Father L.'s contention that, not only was it possible that it was a group of janitors, bit that it was the laity's duty to assume that it was something like that. In that interview, he made some snide comments that seemed directly targeted at Mr. Voris.

As my platoon sergeant used to say, "once is an accident, twice is enemy action"

This This makes twice that I know of that he has attacked Mr. Voris. My enjoyment of the balance of Father L's work has me wondering if he is under some sort of constraint under his vow of obedience to obfuscate and deflect his readers on certain subjects.

Susan said...

Unfortunately Catholic Answers should have seen these financial problems coming 10 years ago. We sent them a very large donation 10 or so years ago when they were going to lose their lease. The fact is they need to get out of California. That alone might reduce their expenses by as much as half. In CA, since everything is way more expensive, they have to pay their people more in order to meet the living wage requirement. Office space is extremely expensive, and they're in the San Diego area! There are thousands of places in the US that are dirt cheap by comparison. They could expand their ministry
by leaps and bounds, if they were willing to do what private companies do under similar circumstances. Look at EWTN. They're in one of the cheapest states in the country and have done very well. But because Catholic Answers is in CA, their donors have to provide way more than they would IF they were elsewhere. Just a thought.

CathyLand said...

For myself, the fact that these professional Catholics make 6 figure salaries is not the issue. If they are delivering a truthful, quality product, and are faithful the magisterium, I'm not very concerned with how much money they make. It's when they start watering down the message and protecting those salaries at the expense of the faithful that I get concerned. When consulting a priest about which parish to move to (after too many problems emerged at our parish), his advice was to "go where you are fed". In the same way, my dollars will go where I am fed - nourished in the faith. If CA or any other apostolate is not doing that - if I suspect that they are getting it wrong, or working in ways against the Church, or outright lying, I will not give to those organizations. It seems that this is what many of their donors have done - they have voted with their wallets, making their objections to certain facts clear. CA would do well to re-examine whether or not they are feeding Christ's sheep, and whether their salaries have become stumbling blocks to their ministry.

joe said...

Julie.....perfect!! Thank you for loving our faith.

Victim of Discourse said...

Father Longnecker, your career shows that you are seeking an oasis of calm religious study in a world that will not stop changing. You started out as a Fundamentalist, switched over to Merry Olde England, and now you are a Catholic priest. Clearly, apologetics and logic brought you to us, and that is a valuable gift that I'm glad you share on your blog.

Now that you have found the One True Faith, you already know that you cannot continue running. You have to turn around and defend it. This is what you think you are doing when you attack Michael Voris. But what is it you are really doing? Reflexively toting the party line. Putting your faith in the official pronouncements of official and approved media outlets is not going to save you from having to face the discomforts of taking your own stand.

Clearly, you are better at running and studying than fighting. You have to carefully size up your opponent before you begin battle. The "loony conspiracy fringe" is just the kind of epithet that would have been leveled at the Apostles by the Roman bureaucracy and the Pharisees. Without the fringe, you yourself become the fringe. We need the fringe to keep the rest of us honest.

Church Militant TV is just the kind of balancing force required to expose our modernist bishops. As Pope Benedict said: "The process will be long and wearisome as was the road from the false progressivism on the eve of the French Revolution — when a bishop might be thought smart if he made fun of dogmas and even insinuated that the existence of God was by no means certain . . . "

Michael Voris is doing exactly as Pope Francis has requested: “I want you to make yourselves heard in your dioceses, I want the noise to go out, I want the church to go out onto the streets, I want us to resist everything worldly, everything static, everything comfortable, everything to do with clericalism, everything that might make us closed in on ourselves. The parishes, the schools, the institutions are made for going out ... if they don’t, they become an NGO, and the church cannot be an NGO. May the bishops and priests forgive me if some of you create a bit of confusion afterward. That’s my advice. Thanks for whatever you can do.”

Vox Cantoris said...

Excellent blog post!

I will put a link to it on my open letter.

http://www.voxcantor.blogspot.ca/2013/08/open-letter-to-father-dwight-longenecker.html

Vox Cantoris

Victor said...

(((Dear Father, your children are starving...)))

Are we humans really heading down hill like a snow ball ending for Hell?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv61zBZacpo

Go Figure brothers and sisters in Christ NOW? :)

Peace

John said...

Julie,
In the course of the Vortex episode, Voris essentially declares that he considers Catholic Answers, Ave Maria radio, and EWTN to have become the sort of "professional Catholic" that we shouldn't allow for, yet ChurchMilitant is not.
His rationale seems to be..well, I'm not entirely sure what his rationale IS. One day he suggests salaries, the next day he mentions..subjects-matter that others haven't covered. Or don't cover in as much detail as does ChurchMilitant.

Unfortunately, neither charge makes any sense to me.
I don't consider the comparative salaries of the executives of each apostolate to be terribly relevant, unless he's arguing that someone is growing wealthy in some illegal or spiritually hazardous manner; he makes neither charge.

More importantly, his charge that other outlets have become "establishment" groups that "get along with the bishops" to make operating more smooth..that's bordering on defamation.
I consider this view inappropriate. It's literally not his business to be publicly demeaning other apostolates for the approach they take to discussing Catholic faith OR the most appropriate way to apply our faith to daily life. Such a discussion would be most appropriate to a privately held meeting between the various leaders of the apostolates. Or, at the very least, a public discussion of how differing apostolates approach evangelization, with each apostolate having the chance to have their say, would be FAR more sensible. And helpful.

I think these concerns are more or less what Fr Longenecker tried to highlight.

I like ChurchMilitant and Voris, but in this case, I think they made a poor decision.

fin-tastic said...

As someone who likes Voris AND the "Establishment" Catholic media he critiques, I side with Voris on this one. I think more Catholics should be criticizing the Bishops for tolerating dissent and modernism inside the Church. I also think it's entirely reasonable to speculate that careerism and self-interest prevent more prominent Catholics from doing so. Voris is practically alone in holding Bishops accountable for lax leadership in the faith and morals department. When I survey the madness in so many "Catholic" schools and parishes, I am reminded of a Homer Simpson quote: "It's like a freakin' Country Bear Jambaroo around here!"

John said...

fin-tastic,
I don't think we disagree regarding the bishops' lack of leadership or the fact that we have a Church in crisis. I think we mostly disagree regarding how we each ought to address the challenges we face.

I find fault with Voris on the present matter precisely on grounds that he doesn't seem to fully comprehend that there are more ways than merely one to fight a fight.

Voris basic contention seems to be that "establishment" Catholic media don't openly and frequently criticize the bishops, especially here in America. He suggests that they don't discuss certain matters because doing so would endanger their paychecks. He essentially charges that they wouldn't make any money if they crossed the bishops more often. For all that he may have a point on that to some degree, I must highlight the notion that..other apostolates never DID offer Catholic "stuff" in that sense. That wasn't what they each set out to do.

Essentially, I find fault with Voris on this matter because he ultimately seems to imply that more apostolates ought to be much more insistent about digging up more wrongdoing in the Church and telling us all about what they've learned. I find fault with this because..I think many of us already KNOW about the myriad difficulties facing the Church. We don't necessarily need someone to prove that the world is round or that water is wet.
We already know that from life experience.

If Voris wants to claim that other "establishment" outlets won't address the crisis in the Church, I must counter that they DO, indeed, do just that. They simply do it differently. I think Voris wrongly chastises other apostolates because they DO address various Church crises. Catholic Answers wouldn't exist if Kark Keating hadn't felt that SOMEONE needed to provide better catechesis to the general public. EWTN wouldn't exist either, except that Mother Angelique had much the same thought. Ave Maria radio wouldn't exist, except that Al Kresta and some people associated with him decided that we had a great need for a set of talk radio programs that filled a different set of needs from the others.

In other words, each of the "establishment" Catholic outlets EXIST at all because various persons decided that they'd had enough of the bishops' shenanigans.

If they aren't as openly critical of bishops in their routine programming as Mother Angelique might've been, I must counter that Mother Angeleque was the ONLY voice at the time who was raising a ruckus. I think the fact that we don't see EACH outlet now doing the same thing demonstrates NOT a willful neglect of the ill within the Church, but instead a routine willingness to work around such ills and enable people to come closer to Christ anyway.

It's a matter of realizing that each apostolate does not need to be an attack dog, but can offer the most positive elements of Catholic faith that they have to offer.

I like ChurchMilitant because Voris uses his background as an investigative reporter to help bring various ills within the Church to light.
I DON'T like the insinuation that every apostolate should risk becoming a muck-raker merely because we have legion problems.

As an aside, I'm reminded of the "That's Outrageous" section of Reader's Digest; they commented how highlighting problems in society was the first step toward solving them. Trouble is, I never saw any problem solved that they highlighted. I see the same trouble being a hazard with The Vortex. It's not that I don't want to hear the bad, stuff, but rather that I ALSO want to hear the good stuff.

We need positive presentations of the faith every bit AS MUCH as we need negative exposure to the ills.

Supertradmum said...

Why should trad or conservative listeners and watchers who live on less than 35k a year give to those organizations which have lost their way? Voris is an example for us all. And, the real issues are not discussed, as many have noted.

I wrote on this and hope you repeat these two posts. Voris is just be persecuted because he speaks the truth and people do not like it.

http://supertradmum-etheldredasplace.blogspot.ie/2013/09/some-of-us-just-cant.html

Discord for the sake of discord is not what we want, but showing up errors for the good of Holy Mother Church is a good. Some of the critics of Voris would hate John the Baptist, Catherine of Siena, and many other saints, who saw evil and called it for what it was.

I ask this question. Who are the real sowers of discord? Voris or others against him?

http://supertradmum-etheldredasplace.blogspot.ie/2013/08/catholics-as-sowers-of-discord.html

Supertradmum said...

PS The American Catholic Church was healthier when it was not Middle-Class, but an immigrant Church struggling and TRUSTING in God. Real holiness involves daily trust and daily dependency on God. Those who have little see God more clearly.

Supertradmum said...

Sorry, one more comment. I know people who are not renewing their expensive EWTN cable or dish contracts here in Europe because they do not want to watch an interview with a nun who was kissed sixty years ago by Elvis Presley or WYD. . They want guidance on how to deal with the fact that the European Church is on the edge of the greatest persecution since Stalin. And, America will follow. This is time for seriousness and not entertainment. Also, several times I have written to EWTN because of errors on their shows regarding Church teaching. I did get nice replies and did not see the problems repeated. But, why did that happen in the first place, and as I have not watched in a long time, how many other errors have been said without notice?

There is a disjoint...

Unknown said...

Thanks for a thoughtful post. What is most clear is the fact that Mr. Voris touched a raw nerve.... And brought up issues that NEED to be discussed.

Sadly, for those who are unaware, CRS ( who is in dubious relationships with USAID and other groups) is now using Catholic Radio to shore up PR after revelations surfaced about their dubious alliances. That Catholic Radio is allowing themselves to be used for this purpose is sad... It further shows why Mr. Voris needs to continually challenge the Professional Catholics.

CCR said...

There is one organization that keeps me on the donors list. Every month or so I receive a letter written in an urgent tone. You have received it too perhaps: "Give us money or we go under", "Give us money or this enemy of the Church will have his way with this or that." I called them "Chicken Little Letters" and never send a dime to them after I realized that the text is designed by some "professional" to exact the most money from credulous recipients. MANY CATHOLIC OUTLETS are using that technique. These days I give ALL of my contributions to the Little Sisters of the Poor in my neighborhood. I know them, I know their work, I know they use every penny wisely and in a godly way. As for EWTN and "the others" they can go and get a real job. Many of those organizations are not doing a thing to advance the cause of the Church. I have seen that with my own eyes.

Good for Mr Voris and all of those who have brought this situation up to the public forum. I believe Fr. Longenecker will see the light soon and apologize. He has many good friends who can inform him well.

Peter Mid said...

Dear Fr. Longenecker
In reading your article attacking Michael Voris I was dismayed at your hypocrisy . Have you spoken to Mr Voris before you criticized him as you claim he should have done with Karl eating. The fact is that although catholic answers does do some good it has always seemed to be a way that these reformed protestants can make high wages. There are many people who have worked for the church in various ways and have never received any income to do what we are all called to do .I understand that a man should receive fair wages but to receive the figures that catholic answers receive is ridiculous. God’s word and presenting the truth should not have a price. I have often felt that many of these lay speakers travel round and basically say nothing new and sell books etc. Are almost simonist. As if all of a sudden they have a conversion and immediately become spokesman for the catholic church and make a bundle. I have a problem with that. I have watched Michael Voris and all he is doing is exposing the truth that the church is in dire need of renewal and need to go back to its roots which it broke away form 40 years ago in a unprecedented way. Catholic answers ridiculed the people that believe this for no apparent reason .Did they talk to the people they were attacking ??? I am sure they did not even though the people were ready to talk to them. You don’t criticise them ! The claim that it is the extremist that they are attacking but if you listen carefully that is not the case. As a traditionalist I know the sort of nastiness and name calling and the talk from vipers behind your back etc. It is a common theme amongst the N.O . Catholics which was much tempered when Pope Benedict xvi freed the Traditional Mass . It astounds me with all the problems in the church , the corruption, the paedophilia the loss of faith the blatant apostasy that people criticise the traditionalist and people doing their best to defend the church etc.
Quite frankly I think you need to get back to tradition when the church in America was growing at a rate of 1.300000 a year in 1959. Well the devil had to do something about that and he did and it worked. Take your head out the sand. I mean this in the charitable way
God bless
Peter Middeldorp

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