Pages

Our Motto:

The Connecticut Catholic Corner Motto: Romans 14:16 "Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil."

All articles owned by Connecticut Catholic Corner

© 2007-2017 All articles owned by Connecticut Catholic Corner *except EWTN press releases(see sidebar)*

Friday, October 24, 2008

Methodist Preacher Has His Say, Then I Have Mine

I received an interesting email response from Reverend Ray Dubuque a United Methodist minister here in Connecticut, commenting on my recent post "Vote Yes! On Question #1!". Here is what the good Methodist Reverend had to say to me about my post and my Catholic faith:

Liberator_Rev has left a new comment on your post "VOTE YES! On Question #1": "Because your Catholic Church was not held accountable for its huge role in the Jewish Holocaust - which I document fully at JesusWouldBeFurious.Org/RCscandal - and you have never repented of that monstrous sin, confessed it and sought forgiveness for it, you are still engaged in promoting contempt for homosexuals as you did when your Roman Catholic Hitler persecuted the Jews AND homosexuals just a generation or so ago.When are you going to get around to promoting Christ's agenda, rather than Catholicism????" -Reverend Ray Dubuque of the United Methodist Church.

My response: What does the Jewish Holocaust have to do with voting yes to question #1 on this years Connecticut voting ballot? I fail to see the connection and have come to the conclusion that sales must be slow and you are trying to self promote yourself with my blog. Well I am all for capitalism and not socialism, so I will include your anti-Catholic nonsense link and wish you the best of luck in your endeavors. But what I won't do or allow, is your blatant lies to go unchecked on my blog. Perhaps "blatant lies" is too strong a word for me to use for a Methodist minister, perhaps I should chalk your comments and views up to simple ignorance? Well, here's to dispelling your ignorance with some true knowledge to help you grow as a clergyman and not be a stumbling block to your flock by teaching errors to them.
1) Your link to "Jesus Would be Furious" is nothing more then anti-Catholic hate and lies. I wouldn't line my dogs crate with that garbage. But you know what they say about "one man's garbage is another man's treasure...".


2) What "huge role" did the Catholic Church play in the Jewish Holocaust? You mean saving lives and excommunicating ANY Catholic who was a Nazi or voted for anyone in the Nazi party? Well thanks! I think the Church did well with that too, although it cost many Catholics their very lives to do so, they still did what was morally right instead of going with the flow.


3) The fact is that the conference of German bishops excommunicated all Nazis in 1930, and in the 1932 elections forbade Catholics to vote for a Nazi. The Church did stand up to the evil that was the Nazi party and they did save many lives.


4) Some quotes:
-"Being a lover of freedom, when the revolution came in Germany, I looked to the universities to defend it, knowing that they had always boasted of their devotion to the cause of truth; but, no, the universities immediately were silenced. Then I looked to the great editors of the newspapers whose flaming editorials in days gone by had proclaimed their love of freedom; but they, like the universities, were silenced in a few short weeks...Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's campaign for suppressing truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom. I am forced thus to confess that what I once despised I now praise unreservedly."- Albert Einstein- Time Magazine- December 23, 1940


-"The voice of Pius XII is a lonely voice in the silence and darkness enveloping Europe this Christmas... he is about the only ruler left on the Continent of Europe who dares to raise his voice at all... the Pope put himself squarely against Hitlerism... he left no doubt that the Nazi aims are also irreconcilable with his own conception of a Christian peace."-New York Times-December 25, 1941


-"I should like you to take this occasion to express to His Holiness my deeply-felt appreciation of the frequent action which the Holy See has taken on its own initiative in its generous and merciful efforts to render assistance to the victims of racial and religious persecutions." Franklin D. Roosevelt to Myron C. Taylor, August 3, 1944


-" . . I told him [the Pope] that my first duty was to thank him , and through him, the Catholic Church, on behalf of the Jewish public, for all they had done in the various countries to rescue Jews, to save children, and Jews in general." Moshe Sharett, Later First Israeli Foreign Minister (April 1945)


-"When fearful martyrdom came to our people, the voice of the pope was raised for its victims." Golda Meir, Israeli Foreign (October 1958)

-". . . the Catholic Church, under the pontificate of Pope Pius XII was instrumental in saving at least 700,000, but probably as many as 860,000, Jews from certain death at Nazi hands." Pinchas E. Lapide, Three Popes and the Jews (1967)


-"In his 1942 Christmas message, which The New York Times among others extolled, the pope became the first figure of international stature to condemn what was turning into the Holocaust." Kenneth Woodward, Newsweek (March 30, 1998)


-". . . Pius XII was, genuinely and profoundly, a righteous gentile." Rabbi David G. Dalin, The Weekly Standard, February 26, 2001


5) And from Zenit news:
"No one knows exactly how many Jews were hidden and saved by the Church, but according to "Three Popes and the Jews" by Jewish historian Emilio Pinchas Lapide, then consul general in Milan, "the Holy See, the nuncios, and the Catholic Church saved between 740,000 and 850,000 Jews from certain death." It is estimated that more than 80% of the Jews in Italy escaped the Nazi genocide. In Rome alone, the Jewish community has certified that the Church saved 4,447 Jews from the Holocaust." source:
http://www.zenit.org/article-12040?l=english

6) Here is what Pope John Paul II had to say;
The words of the ancient Psalm, rise from our hearts: "I have become like a broken vessel. I hear the whispering of many -- terror on every side -- as they scheme together against me, as they plot to take my life. But I trust in you, O Lord: I say, 'you are my God."' (Psalms 31:13-15)
In this place of memories, the mind and heart and soul feel an extreme need for silence. Silence in which to remember. Silence in which to try to make some sense of the memories which come flooding back. Silence because there are no words strong enough to deplore the terrible tragedy of the Shoah.
My own personal memories are of all that happened when the Nazis occupied Poland during the war. I remember my Jewish friends and neighbors, some of whom perished, while others survived. I have come to Yad Vashem to pay homage to the millions of Jewish people who, stripped of everything, especially of human dignity, were murdered in the Holocaust. More than half a century has passed, but the memories remain.
Here, as at Auschwitz and many other places in Europe, we are overcome by the echo of the heart-rending laments of so many. Men, women and children, cry out to us from the depths of the horror that they knew. How can we fail to heed their cry? No one can forget or ignore what happened. No one can diminish its scale.
We wish to remember. But we wish to remember for a purpose, namely to ensure that never again will evil prevail, as it did for the millions of innocent victims of Nazism.
How could man have such utter contempt for man? Because he had reached the point of contempt for God. Only a godless ideology could plan and carry out the extermination of a whole people.
The honor given to the 'Just Gentiles' by the state of Israel at Yad Vashem for having acted heroically to save Jews, sometimes to the point of giving their own lives, is a recognition that not even in the darkest hour is every light extinguished. That is why the Psalms and the entire Bible, though well aware of the human capacity for evil, also proclaims that evil will not have the last word.
Out of the depths of pain and sorrow, the believer's heart cries out: "I trust in you, O Lord: 'I say, you are my God."' (Psalms 31:14)
Jews and Christians share an immense spiritual patrimony, flowing from God's self-revelation. Our religious teachings and our spiritual experience demand that we overcome evil with good. We remember, but not with any desire for vengeance or as an incentive to hatred. For us, to remember is to pray for peace and justice, and to commit ourselves to their cause. Only a world at peace, with justice for all, can avoid repeating the mistakes and terrible crimes of the past.
As bishop of Rome and successor of the Apostle Peter, I assure the Jewish people that the Catholic Church, motivated by the Gospel law of truth and love, and by no political considerations, is deeply saddened by the hatred, acts of persecution and displays of anti-Semitism directed against the Jews by Christians at any time and in any place.
The church rejects racism in any form as a denial of the image of the Creator inherent in every human being.
In this place of solemn remembrance, I fervently pray that our sorrow for the tragedy which the Jewish people suffered in the 20th century will lead to a new relationship between Christians and Jews. Let us build a new future in which there will be no more anti-Jewish feeling among Christians or anti-Christian feeling among Jews, but rather the mutual respect required of those who adore the one Creator and Lord, and look to Abraham as our common father in faith.
The world must heed the warning that comes to us from the victims of the Holocaust, and from the testimony of the survivors. Here at Yad Vashem the memory lives on, and burns itself onto our souls. It makes us cry out: "I hear the whispering of many -- terror on every side -- but I trust in you, O Lord: I say, 'You are my God."' (Psalms 31:13-15)
-Pope John Paul II - March 23, 2000-Yad Vashem, Israel's main Holocaust memorial-


The Catholic Church is promoting "Christ's agenda" in my opinion, but I have a feeling you Reverend see "Christ's agenda" as something else. To me "Christ's agenda" is the Gospel message. That is telling people that Jesus Christ is the Savior and putting into action the Great Commission (Matthew 28:8 "Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit,"). Let's see, hmmm... there are approximately over a BILLION Catholics worldwide and how many Methodists?
I do thank you for sharing your views with myself and my blog readers. It's always enlightening and eye opening to see how others view things. May God bless you.

5 comments:

Liberator_Rev said...

I posted my comments to you where you could and everybody who read YOUR article could see them and answer them. But you are so interested (NOT) in the truth that you or your Catholic friends deleted my comment on that article, so no one else could see them, and now you are attempting to refute my comments HERE, without telling me you were doing so.
You are so "Christlike", so honest, so interested in the light and the truth!
Although you haven't credited your source, my guess is that it is Rabbi Dalin's booklet, which I expose for the comic book that it is on my JesusWouldBeFurious.Org/RCscandal , and I refute all of the commonly presented arguments you present there as well.

It's interesting that you cite the fact that the German hierarchy threatened Catholics who dared join the NAZI party with excommunication prior to 1933. True, but that was BEFORE Hitler became the country's absolute ruler and gained the power to put what were only terrible ideas in earlier years into practice. The Catholic Church LIFTED the ban at the very moment when it should have been enforcing it.

# What did Pope Pius XII do about the many of the most vicious architects of the Nazi Holocaust who were Roman Catholics, i. e. Adolf Hitler, Heinrich Himmler, Josef Goebbels, Reinhard Heydrich, Rudolf Hoess, Julius Streicher, Fritz Thyssen, Klaus Barbie, and Franz Von Papen and R. C. Engelbert Dollfuss was head of the Nazi state of Austria.
# R. C. Leon Degrelle was head of the Nazi state of Belgium.
# R. C. Emil Hacha was head of the Nazi state of Bohemia-Moravia.
# R. C. Ante Pavelic was head of the Nazi state of Croatia.
# R. C. Adolf Hitler was head of the Nazi state of Germany.
# R. C. Miklos Horthy was head of the Nazi state of Hungary.
# R. C. Konrad Henlein was head of the Nazi state of Sudetenland.
# R. C. Pierre Laval was head of the Nazi state of Vichy-France.
# R. C. Henry Petain was head of the Nazi state of Vichy-France.
# R. C. priest, Fr. Augustin Voloshin was head of the Nazi state of Ruthenia.
# R. C. priest, Fr. Josef Tiso was head of the Nazi state of Slovakia.
# R. C. priest, Fr. Andrei Hlinka was head of the Nazi state of Slovakia.
# R. C. priest, Fr. Anton Koroshec was head of the Nazi state of Yugoslavia.

Did Pope Pius XII excommunicate any of these the most visible Catholics in their countries at the time? NO. How can anyone say that this pope did "all that he could", when he failed to take this obvious measure so as to make it clear to the millions of Catholic faithful who were enabling the Nazis to carry out their campaigns of mass murder, not only against Jews, but against their fellow Catholics in Poland, that they should have no part in these monstrous of crimes and most mortal of sins?
On the other hand, after the Nazis were defeated and no longer posed any threat to the pope, the Vatican, or the Catholic Church anywhere, did Pope Pius XII allow the Vatican to be used to protect thousands of Catholic war criminals such as the above to escape punishment for their war crimes? YES. Whose side was the pope on?

By calling ME a liar, etc., for telling the truth in this matter, Julie, you are associating yourself with the kind of Catholics who cooperated with Hitler in his mass-murder of millions of Catholics as well as Jews!

Julie said...

No one "deleted" any comments. I took your comments from email- where all post comments go on my blog, and addressed them in a new post because it was too lengthy to address in a tiny comment box. I did not omit a single word you emailed and I addressed everything you had to say. As the title says, you had your say, then I had mine. Remember this is my blog and I didn't have to respond to you at all, but I actually enjoy hearing all opinions, even those that disagree with me so I allowed you a voice on my blog to share your thoughts here. I get the distinct feeling you would not have done the same for me if the situation were turned around.

In Christ
Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

Liberator_Rev said...

"Whatever" regarding emails!
What about my response to your claim that the Catholic hierarchy excommunicated Catholics who joined the Nazi Party?

Julie said...

What about your response? The conference of German Bishops excommunicated ALL Nazi's in 1930 and forbid Catholics to vote for anyone in the Nazi party- if a Catholic went against that they were automatically excommunicated by their actions. You've got no point Reverend, none. You seem to be trying to blame the Catholic Church for what Hitler did and that blame is not to be placed on the door of the Catholic Church. The Nazi's didn't just kill Jews, they killed Catholics too. Go back and read the quotes after you've prayed to God to open your narrow judgemental anti-Catholic mind.

In Christ,
Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

Mary Ann Kreitzer said...

This is the same old anti-Catholic claptrap that has made the rounds since the Communist-inspired play The Deputy slandered Pope Pius XII in the 60s. Some people will believe anything they read. The case against the pope has as much truth to it as the fiction, The DaVinci Code.

Hitler was a pagan who admired the Norse gods and followed a new age religion. He created "Lebensborns" which were effectively brothels where his Arian supermen could impregnate "pure bred" German girls to have super babies for the Reich to replace all the men lost in WW I. They would hold naming ceremonies that mimicked Baptism. Yes, Hitler was baptized Catholic, but just because the mouse in the cookie jar doesn't make him a cookie.

It is impossible to even begin to expose the lies of your correspondent. He illustrates Ecclesiastes 1:13 (Vulgate translation) "The perverse are hard to be corrected, and the number of fools is infinite." Don't waste any more time on him. He will use any excuse to attack the Catholic Church. Wipe his dust off your blog!

Related Posts Plugin for WordPress, Blogger...