"If the faith is in imminent peril, prelates ought to be accused by their subjects, even in public." -St. Thomas Aquinas
How do we stop a pope who has clearly (for a while now) gone off the rails?
No, seriously. What do we do? Sit by and watch as Pope Francis continues the downward spiral of spouting heretical ideology that is causing chaos and mass confusion in the world?
We do nothing? Just stand by and watch people go to hell with a helping hand from the Vicar of Christ?
How long do we keep saying "He hasn't officially changed Church teaching" to comfort ourselves when we've got a pope saying things like fornicators have "real marriages" because of their "fidelity to each other"?
Quote: He [Pope Francis] said that in Argentina’s northeast countryside, couples have a child and live together. They have a civil wedding when the child goes to school, and when they become grandparents they “get married religiously.”
“It’s a superstition, because marriage frightens the husband. It’s a superstition we have to overcome,” the Pope said. “I’ve seen a lot of fidelity in these cohabitations, and I am sure that this is a real marriage, they have the grace of a real marriage because of their fidelity, but there are local superstitions, etc.”
When did fidelity fornication become sinless? Is this not a "new teaching" by a Catholic pope? How many people living in the mortal sin of cohabitation will now not even consider an actual valid marriage because Pope Francis has just made this latest SCANDALOUS statement?
So go ahead and fornicate folks, if you are loyal to each other Pope Francis "is sure" you have a "real marriage" even though you've never gotten married. Pope Francis has just redefined the word "fornicator".
Can the rest of the Catholic world now call Pope Francis' ideology heresy?
What else will it take before we collectively call a spade a spade?
When our first pope, Saint Peter was wrong about his treatment of the Gentile converts nearly everyone was silent. It seemed no one was willing to step up and tell the pope he was wrong- then Saint Paul stood up and opened his mouth and corrected Saint Peter. Peter accepted the correction and world didn't end. Should it be any different today?
I don't have to list all the things this pope has said and done over the last few years - you all know what I am talking about.
Is there no one at the Vatican willing to correct Pope Francis? No one? No backbones to be found among the clergy? What a disgrace!
Is it to fall to the laity here and there around the world, whom the pope probably doesn't hear and wouldn't listen to anyway, to speak up?
I know everyone sees it - including clergy, too many simply will not tell the truth about what we all see happening.
Shame on you for your silence, souls are being lost and you sit by and do nothing to stop it!
In Christ and weeping,
Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner
Source:
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/most-marriages-today-are-invalid-pope-francis-suggests-51752/
Catholic Church teaching (before Pope Francis):
Catechism:
2353 Fornication is carnal union between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman. It is gravely contrary to the dignity of persons and of human sexuality which is naturally ordered to the good of spouses and the generation and education of children. Moreover, it is a grave scandal when there is corruption of the young.
2396 Among the sins gravely contrary to chastity are masturbation, fornication, pornography, and homosexual practices.
***ADDITION:
Fox News article asking for Pope Francis to resign:
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/06/17/enough-is-enough-pope-francis-should-resign.html
I don't myself always agree with what the Bishop of Rome says as a personal opinion. But I try to make sure I know what his opinion is. In this case, all I see is that in his opinion those couples may be in the eyes of God be bound in marriage, because that's their intention and are only prevented from the "official" contract by the superstition he refers to. Bear in mind that, unless I'm mistaken, the ministers of the sacrament of marriage are the spouses themselves, the church assembly being just witnesses.
ReplyDeleteTo deduce from this, maybe wrong, but merciful, understanding position that the Pope is giving people the go ahead to fornicate at will is a fantastic quantum leap in the void. When I read this tirades against Francis I, I can't help feeling justified in thanking God that is him, not some of his critics who sit in the chair of Peter.
Again, I'm not saying that this—or any other— pope is beyond criticism. All I'm saying is that whatever critique is made should be well-founded and, above all, charitable.
Thanks for your contribution
Thank you for sharing your opinion Javier. Clearly we differ in our opinions.
ReplyDeleteThis pope continually sends mixed messages with his off the cuff remarks.
What is the definition of fornication is not sex outside of marriage?
Do not the Sacred Scriptures (and our Catholic Church - catechism see above in post) state that no fornicators will be in Heaven?
What do you think the masses will take away from Pope Francis saying cohabiting couples with "fidelity" to each other have "real marriages"?
Either it is a valid marriage or its fornication. People cohabiting who don't have any marriage ceremony are not "married"- at least that is what the Church USED to teach. Sadly, I don't know about now. And I don't see how it can be both a marriage and fornication- it is one or the other. JMO
In Christ,
Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner
It seems to me that Pope Francis has a non-Catholic belief system, that is a hodgepodge of various Protestant beliefs, politics, and half understood thoughts, that he has been slowly unpacking over time and it has lead to this and it will lead to that. In other words, it is going to get much worse.
ReplyDeletePope Francis is Pope, so there is a limit as to what can be done. I would start first with your real life friends, build a coalition, and then use that coalition to influence and support your parish priest to preach solid Catholic teachings. Then, when and if asked by people, just say that Pope Francis is Pope but he is teaching contrary to the Deposit of Faith. It is up to the bishops to figure out what they are going to do about their brethren, but you will support whomever teaches according to the Deposit of the Faith.
Paraphrasing from The Martian: "I'm going to Catholic the heck out of this."
ReplyDeleteLOL Bear!
ReplyDeleteLove that movie! ;)
You don't do anything with him except wait him out.
ReplyDeleteActually the Pope is answering a question that was given to him and the whole conversation is only in Italian. He is actually talking about the loyalty of the unmarried couples. He does not talk about fornication. It is the loyalty of these couples that some married couples should look at as an example and how it is important to remove the superstition that keeps them from marrying at the beginning. The lucky few that have the amazing experience of talking to Jesus or Mary they always are told to be loyal to the church and obey because the Holy Spirit works through the church. We need to completely trust God and let Him do His work and most importantly look for the original text not paste whatever can be found in the internet. We should as Catholics always stand behind our Pope no matter what.
ReplyDeleteI’m so happy, niuta2011, you wrote this comment! I'm happy for you, first, and for the Church, and even for those whose misguided comments prompted you to write like that.
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with the apologist Ravi Zacharias that sometimes, as in this case, you can't tell the truth and be agreeable. I need to say the following words from St. Josemaria apply to some critics of Pope Francis and the way they see him, and the church on the whole.
“That Christ you see is not Jesus. It is only the pitiful image that your blurred eyes are able to form... — Purify yourself. Clarify your sight with humility and penance.”
The injunction, “Go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.” might be properly addressed to them. As you rightly point out, the Pope is taking an understanding, positive view of those couples who, indeed, are an example of the genuine commitment pertaining to marriage (look at what they have made of so many "orthodox” marriages!). He's not referring to fornication or any other of the ‘immoralities’ ‘virtuous’ people seem to be so obsessed with. What he means is best understood in the context of all other of his communications.
In my view—and thank God—Francis, like Jesus himself, while not disregarding justice and the law—which must be fulfilled to the last dot—is fundamentally concerned with the person (as any father would be, and so is the Holy Father). Unfortunately—mostly for themselves—some people fail to see this. They appear to have their own project and agenda for the church. Why they think they can do better than the Vicar of Christ, beats me.
They could, for after all, there have been terrible popes. Popes, and bishops in our time, as those who cover up and practically abet sex crimes by priests, ignoring that “It would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck”. But that's no problem, it’s fornication that must worry us. Having said that, I don't see any realistic grounds to disqualify this Pope. I am myself concerned that he is too much on the side of the innocent dove and should learn to be also on the wise serpent side. But, then again, this was a conversation and you can't keep on the lookout for any devious misinterpretation that can't be made.
It helps me discern which side may be right to consider that, while Francis is moved by love, others are moved by law. He is a humble man who openly says he has no intention of speaking ‘ex cathedra’, but his critics pontificate unreservedly; he professes to take time to make sure what he sees in his prayer is really what he must do, but his opponents jump to any opportunity to rebuke him, too often in a most uncharitable, disrespectful way, like in an article about "the sins of the pope”, where it is reported to say "stupid" things. I will side with Francis any day. May sound like breaking the unity, but is actually restoring it.
Anyhow, as you said, let's trust God—not ourselves—and try to help, not antagonize, our Pope in his holy endeavor to be our pastor.
Thanks to you all for your cooperation.
If people reading this article haven't yet read Hilary White's article on The Remnant, I highly suggest it:
ReplyDeletehttp://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/fetzen-fliegen/item/2599-francis-is-the-pope-until-the-pope-says-he-s-not
In Christ,
Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner
I couldn't bear with this foggy, meanderingly protracted and unsubstantiated article that made me acutely miss both scientific rigor and evangelical simplicity. I couldn't get beyond “This mess – and I know that there has never in our entire multi-millennial history been a worse one”. In the bi-millennial—I would say, not multi-millennial—history of the Church there had been far worse crises, as when there where not one, or two, but three questionable popes! This is in the same league as Christ dying Cashmere or Einstein being a plagiarist. The Catholic Church may be in a mess, but I don't think is on account of her Pope. My best wishes to the faithful (?) involved in this campaign, whose intentions maybe good, I don't know, but I am out of this.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, for guidance on how to deal with ecclesiastic crises, look at the Saints, St. Catherine of Siena in particular.
I said I was out of this, and I still am. I'm not adding anything of my own, only what I read in the Appendix to Francis I interview "The Name of God is Mercy”:
ReplyDelete"Confessors are called to be a sign of the primacy of mercy always, everywhere, and in every situation, no matter what."
"Let us never tire of also going out to the other son [of the father of the Prodigal Son] who stands outside, incapable of rejoicing, in order to explain to him that his judgement is severe and unjust and meaningless in light of the father's boundless mercy."
Now, if that's going off the rails, I want to go there. But, if staying on the rails is policing even what the Pope says to make sure it is in compliance with my particular project for the Church, and my reading of the Catechism, and My Deposit of the Faith, then I don't want to stay.