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Tuesday, August 11, 2015

Bishop-elect Fr. Barron's Divine Comedy on Hell

  
Lately, Fr. Barron has been busy on Youtube leaving assorted distortions and confusing replies to the comments on his "we have a reasonable hope all people are saved" video, where two days ago he reasserted his 'hope' for universal salvation...
  

My focus is not on his video...but rather his replies (both new and old) to people who are confused by his statements that often conflict with the Church, the Bible and the writings of the Saints and Doctors of the Church. 

Here is an old comment Fr. Barron made telling a woman TO speculate that "all will be saved" but DO NOT speculate that anyone will go to hell.  


When people asked him about Ananias and Sapphira being saved or damned (Bible: Acts 5)...
Ananias and Sapphira5 "But a man named Ananias, with the consent of his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property; with his wife’s knowledge, he kept back some of the proceeds, and brought only a part and laid it at the apostles’ feet. “Ananias,” Peter asked, “why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back part of the proceeds of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, were not the proceeds at your disposal? How is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You did not lie to us but to God!” Now when Ananias heard these words, he fell down and died. And great fear seized all who heard of it. The young men came and wrapped up his body, then carried him out and buried him.After an interval of about three hours his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. Peter said to her, “Tell me whether you and your husband sold the land for such and such a price.” And she said, “Yes, that was the price.” Then Peter said to her, “How is it that you have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test? Look, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” 10 Immediately she fell down at his feet and died. When the young men came in they found her dead, so they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11 And great fear seized the whole church and all who heard of these things."

...Barron ignored them and did not respond.  I thought it was a good question and I would have liked seeing Barron's response.

So it's really no great wonder why the people leaving comments on Barron's Youtube Channel are so confused.  Barron has stirred up valid questions and they aren't getting valid answers.

In the following comments we see exactly why Bishop-elect "hopes" all will be saved...he wonders if any human ever dies in a state of mortal sin: 


How do we know anyone actually dies in mortal sin??  Really? 

Looking around the world today, Fr. Barron questions whether or not people die in a state of mortal sin?  This stuns me. 
Oh well, that explains it!  


I have no idea what Bishop-elect Barron is saying here (above).  Is he saying because Christ calls 'us all' that 'all' will answer and be saved? He seems very focused on the word "all", while completely forgetting Sacred Scripture of Christ separating the sheep from the goats (Matthew 25). 

Barron goes on with his "all" fascination:
I think I'm having a Clinton flash-back 'what is the meaning of is'!

Notice below that Fr. Barron poo-poos Church approved apparitions on revelation about hell, but he fully supports Dante's Divine Comedy (the "single tear") as a reliable source for information on hell and salvation. 


...and here
now again just two days ago he uses Dante as proof...



And again he REALLY likes Dante: 

Nothing against Dante...but I would take Sacred Scripture, the visions of hell and warnings of Our Lady of Fatima over Dante's Divine Comedy as a resource on Hell and the very real fact that people will spend eternity there. 

One more thing... Barron isn't too fond of Church Militant's Michael Voris for pointing all this out over the years. ;) 


Barron thinks Voris is a "bully" and says he won't respond to him...
...yet Barron says he DID respond to Voris...





In Christ and wondering what in Hell Bishop-elect Fr. Barron is talking about, 


Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner 



Source: Bishop-elect Fr. Barron's Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmsa0sg4Od4


14 comments:

E. G. Lewis said...

This post tempted me to post to Father Barron and ask about the rich man who is burning in Hell while Lazarus rests in Abraham's bosom. One of our recent reading also talked about Jesus sending his angles to gather the wicked and throw them into everlasting fire. But I'm sure Barron would slither out of those too. He never mentions it, but St Faustina also had a vision of Hell. In her diary she says, she was allowed to visit Hell so no one could ever deny its existence. Of course, she failed to mention that it's one gigantic empty space. If the mercy of God saves all, why bother with the earth and everything else. Just create a bunch of perfect people and populate heaven with them.

Jason Liuzza said...

I could only make it through a few of Barron's comments. If I want filth I'll turn on the television.

If nobody is in hell why is he a priest and why did Christ establish His Church? If His passion, death, and resurrection is all we need, then why leave us here after the Ascension? Just to be cruel?

Can I just live it up now? Is there no such thing as mortal sin? If I die unrepentant of mortal sin do I enter into my Lord's Kingdom?

Barron is an ass. And all like him. That he is made a bishop is yet another spit in the face of the faithful by the Holy Father.

Don't be deceived.

Gregory Maximus said...

So Fr. Barron is lauding people the flock to go out and sin. When you are on your death bed drop a tear for repentance and you go to Heaven without Confession or no repentance at all. Yep. That's going to bring in the atheists and the Heathens alright. Barron should remind his flock to go to confession often because there is a good chance you will go to Hell if you don't.

Slick said...

Barron didn't say that nobody was in hell. He said we hope for the salvation of all. Big difference. One of the Fatima prayers says, "lead all souls to heaven." Should we criticize the angel for giving the children that one? Some people seem to hope there are many people in hell instead.

Connecticut Catholic Corner said...

EGLewis you're right, thanks for the reminder about St. Faustina!

---

Wow Jason, why don't you tell us how you really feel? ;) Well said.

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Gregory excellent point. If people think only the worst of the worst will go to hell, then people won't bother to repent and turn their lives around. So many people think "Well, hell is for Hitler, not for people in love living together outside of marriage etc," [in sin] and stuff like that. As if you have to be a heinous insane butcher killing droves of people to warrant hell, every one else gets a 'get out of hell' card for all those other sins. Personally, I don't think Fr. Barron is helping anyone.

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hey Slick, I don't think anyone made the claim that Barron said "nobody was in hell". I know I didn't write that in my article. It's the theology Barron is promoting that is not consistent with Jesus' warnings about hell that is the problem for me.
My other issue, was the clear (ha) confusion Barron was causing in the comments area of his own Youtube page. Catholics are now DOUBTING their faith because of Barron's theology. That is a problem.

---


In Christ,

Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner



cultul said...

I am reading a sermon by St. Robert Bellarmine entitled "Hell and Its Torments". Very enlightening and disturbing. He identifies three principle causes as to why people do not consider the possibility of a person going to hell: lack of consideration, ignorance, and self love. The sermon is an excellent reminder that more Saints were made due to fear of hell than any other reason. I will not comment on Bishop Barron. It would not be charitable to do so. I, instead, will continue to meditate on the four last things and work out my salvation with fear and trembling...

Ever mindful said...

Great is His faithfulness;
His mercies begin afresh each morning.

Lamentations 3:23

Woody said...

Hoping something happens is no more than speculation. It is illogical to base a theological fact on one private revelation but then take the position that other private revelations, which do not support your thesis, are incorrect because they are private revelations. I hope I go to heaven; however, I KNOW according to Sacred Scripture and the Church the path I MUST walk in order to attain heaven and avoid hell. Hoping all go to heaven based on God's mercy forsakes God's justice. God is merciful and just. It is our choice how to live. Thus, it is our choice of heaven or hell. To hope all go to heaven is a good supplication. It is a request that all submit to God's will so that they do attain heaven. But once again, it is up to the individual to accept God's will or deny it. Accept His will and you go to heaven. Deny His will and you go to hell. Hope, wish, desire, aspire are mere words of speculation. Actions speak louder than words.

John Hiner said...

Jesus predicted: “And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting.” (Matthew 25:46.) To hope that all men are saved is to “hope” that Jesus was mistaken in this prediction. To “hope” that is to “hope” that Jesus is not God. That is not a “reasonable hope.”

Repentant Pharisee said...

The problem with Father Barron's speculation is that it throws into question why God gave man free will in the first place. It makes obsolete the idea of "cooperating with grace". We know from tradition that God gives man sufficient grace to know Him and to know the Natural Law by mere observance of the physical world, and human instinct regarding right and wrong. We also know that a man like Judas can reject grace -- even actual grace -- and go to his destruction. What Father Barron refers to as "warnings about hell", in the paradigm he presents, becomes nothing but the cruel threats of a parent who has no intention whatsoever to follow through. Can anyone imagine a loving parent who would terrorize their children with the threat of eternal pain and suffering, you know, just because? Father Barron's idea of the Father tends toward an emotionally and psychologically abusive deceiver. It calls into question the very action of God casting Adam and Eve from the garden. Did God really say you can't eat of that tree? Did God really say people are in hell? Maybe the serpent was right. "No biggie. You're all in heaven anyway." If no one is in hell, there's no rationale for the punishment of Adam and Eve. And we can't say that it needed to be rectified by the crucifixion -- if we take Father Barron's side -- because Father Barron tells us anything is possible with God. He could have willed to settle up the account right there, and without going to the Cross later on.

So, if indeed we wish hell to be empty, we wish God to be a manipulative, abusive parent made up of empty threats. We wish God to be a painter of illusions that are designed for what purpose I don't know, if God is going to impose His will over our free will to cooperate or not. And it also calls into question the doctrine of the "elect" -- that certain men and women were determined from all time to receive the grace to do God's will when He willed it for the good of all humanity -- e.g., Mary's fiat, Peter's confession of faith, Paul's conversion. If "everyone" is elect, then there is no such thing as "the elect".

As someone who enjoys speculative theology, one can speculate that it's a good thing to emotionally hope that everyone enjoys the beatific vision. When it bleeds into a "probability" that ignores what the Church has taught, then it's a problem, because then we've allowed emotion to conquer reason. The two must exist side by side. Out of charity, we don't wish anyone into hell. But in recognizing that God is both Mercy and Justice -- and with Christ's own warnings in Scripture -- we must pray that others do not end up there. If it's a fait accompli, there's nothing to pray for. And if everyone's in heaven, the "particular judgment" is a falsehood. There's nothing to judge. Just a welcoming committee. And certainly no General Judgment.

tuleesh said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
tuleesh said...

Perhaps the reason Fr. Barron doesn't go hand to hand, man to man, with Michael Voris isn't because Voris is a "bully." It could be that Barron isn't used to facing someone who knows how to defend his own positions like Voris does. Barron was the rector of a seminary and was hardly, if ever, challenged. But, LA is not a closed community of pliant students [or the 'net, for that matter]. Eventually, bishop-elect Barron will have to defend himself and not count solely on his title.

G-d help the city of Los Angeles [official name: Nuestra Señora Reina De Los Angeles—Our Lady Queen Of The Angels]. Excuse me, but didn't Fr. Barron make short shrift of the Fatima apparition? Oh, well.
Seriously, just what the Church needs. Another celebrity bishop/pries

Patty said...

Julie,

Thank you for yet another wake up call. It is past time that believing Catholics banned together for the Catholic Faith. All Faithful Catholics:

http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2015/08/bishop-athanasius-schneider-there-are.html

That said, the only visible reason, it seems, that certain Catholics are denied jurisdiction within dioceses is because the push is to promote Fr. Barron and those that circumnavigate truth, sounding more like Martin Luther with every passing day.

I can only imagine the fete at the Vatican celebrating the Protestant Revolt in 2017.

God willing other Catholic news outlets will report the entire truth unlike others, say CMTV, that cut off Bishop Schneider's wise words and summarize and fear monger to keep believing Catholics divided. But division among the believing is precisely what lends itself to the elevation of those, like Fr Barron, who are soft pedaling heresy.

God have mercy!

Liam Ronan said...

I recall the one Fatima prayer:

"Oh my Jesus forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of Hell and lead all souls to Heaven, especially those most in need of Thy Mercy."

Here, in this prayer, the Blessed Mother urges us to pray for the salvation of all souls. And yet, the Blessed Virgin also showed the children a vision of Hell which was certainly not empty of either human souls or demons.

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