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Monday, September 14, 2015

Pope Francis, Michael Voris, the SSPX and the devil

As everyone by now knows, this month Pope Francis announced his "Year of Mercy" which will include allowing Catholics to go to the SSPX for the Sacrament of Confession.  

The response to this has been (from what I gather) good.  Most people seem to see this as a step in the right direction in the hopes of the SSPX soon being fully in communion with the Church (that is to say with licit Sacraments).  

While I too hope and pray for such a unity, I am leery about what Pope Francis has done.  Of course, to be honest, almost everything this Holy Father does has me concerned.  

From the Pope's "off the cuff" comments and now infamous interviews, I have to wonder if this pope is one of those people who just goes full steam ahead and does/says things without thinking them through.  Pope or not, he is human and this is a human trait.  The problem with a pope who 'flies by the seat of his pants' as the expression goes, is that tremendous damage comes from not looking ahead and thinking through each and every decision.  When you're the pope, especially a media darling like Pope Francis is, every word, action or inaction will have an enormous ripple effect in the world.  Even now, before the Year of Mercy has begun, the ripple effect is being felt.

The folks over at The Remnant seem to be feeling the 'jubilee' over the SSPX having a licit and valid Sacrament of Confession for the Year of Mercy, although they (like others) are confused by just what this means at the end of the Year of Mercy.  At midnight are they invalid and illicit? How will we know?  Will the pope make some proclamation so we are all on the same page and know what is happening?  

Michael Voris and the folks over at Church Militant are going all out this week with numerous Vortex episodes on the SSPX and a new FBI (Faith Based Investigations) show all about the SSPX. 

In the comments area of today's Vortex, some people are questioning why Church Militant would be spending an entire week devoted to discussing the SSPX and whether or not they are in schism (Church Militant says they are, The Remnant says they aren't).  



My response is, Church Militant sees the writing on the wall as I do.  Give people who are yearning for more reverent and holy Mass's a year of going to the SSPX for one Sacrament and we will see people leaving the Holy Catholic Church for the SSPX for all their Sacraments (licit or illicit).  It's gonna happen.  Right now, many folks won't walk into an SSPX parish because of the division, but with Pope Francis' 'Year of Mercy' folks now see a 'green light' from the pope himself for going to the SSPX and checking them out.  

Like the devil himself, this pope (knowingly or unknowingly) is  tempting people.  Pure and simple.  

The people that are starved for what they had prior to the 1960's and what the SSPX has is the look and feel of all that our Novus Ordo Mass has lost in the decades since Vatican II.  And here is Pope Francis dangling that carrot in front of them...the SSPX for one year.  Basically he's saying "Go check out the SSPX for one year, then come back when the time is up". 

When Catholics go to the SSPX for Confession (and those who would not before, will now with this green light from the pope) what will happen? What will those priests say?  

Does anyone think the SSPX priests are going to miss the opportunity to bring people to 'their side' of Catholicism?  To help these people walk out the doors of the Holy Roman Catholic Church parishes they currently belong to and become new members of the SSPX?  Of course they are going to try and bring people in! 

Then what happens?  People fall in love with what the SSPX is offering them and at the end of the 'Year of Mercy' the Church says "Times up! Everyone come back home now, our play-date with the SSPX is over"?  

What is Pope Francis thinking?  Was he thinking at all?  Honestly, I wonder.  Is he so blinded by wanting to be nice and please everyone and be loved by all people that he doesn't stop to think about the consequences of his actions?  

This disturbs me greatly.  Meaning to or not, Pope Francis has once again caused more division in the Church.  And he's done it under the guise of "mercy".  And he's done it in such a way as to tempt people for a short period of time and then he's going to yank it away from them.  How is that a good thing?  

So to answer Hilary White's question in the comments area of Church Militant's Vortex: SSPX Sadness, I believe Church Militant sees the writing on the wall and is looking to educate people and arm them with facts so that they are not led astray or left confused and disillusioned when the 'Year of Mercy' is over and once more the Church declares the Sacraments of the SSPX as illicit. 

It is my belief that Church Militant has their eye on the present situation while never taking their eyes off what is coming.  They are doing what they can now to stem the flow of Catholics running out the door to the SSPX whether its because things go badly at the Synod [as many believe will be the case] or because during this 'Year of Mercy' people check out and like the SSPX.  Anyone with foresight can see this isn't going to end well unless the Church sorts out the differences with the SSPX before the year is up.  Those who leave during the 'Year of Mercy' may never return once the time period is up.  

I have to wonder why Pope Francis doesn't seem to see the writing on the wall as so many other Catholics do- or perhaps he does.  If so, just what does that say about it all? 




In Christ, 


Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner 




Links: 

http://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/pope-francis-sspxs-confessions-valid-and-licit-10330

http://remnantnewspaper.com/web/index.php/articles/item/2002-bombshell-bishop-morlino-apologizes-to-the-sspx

http://www.churchmilitant.com/video/episode/the-vortexsspx-sadness

http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2015/09/01/pope_francis_confessions_of_sspx_licit_during_jubilee/1168912



27 comments:

Veritas Augustine said...

So, we are much better served by going to football and clown Masses?
Kent

J said...

I am not a member of the SSPX, but what i know is that if they are in actual schism they must be excommunicated and out of the Church, but they are not since pope Benedict lifted the excommunion. So if they are not excommunicated, they are in the Church and not in schism.
That is good enough for me, just because it is for pope Benedict.
And let me say that I am sure that many Christians went to confession with St. Athanasius when he was in exile (with no jurisdiction) and excommunicated.
So...lets face the Synod and please, stop this nonsensical argument.

Juan C.

Patty said...

"Does anyone think the SSPX priests are going to miss the opportunity to bring people to 'their side' of Catholicism?" (This is the same fear mongering rhetoric that Bishop Schneider asked us to cease.)

Julie, there is only one Catholicism not "their side". This is why looking to ChurchMilitant for the whole story is leaving you with spin, the whole spin, and nothing but the spin. (Again, you may want to revisit Michael Voris's 2010 analysis of the Novus Ordo Missae. It was accurate. And that is the truth. Nobody should be seeking to cover up the truth out of fear, not when it involves the salvation of souls.)

This is no argument between what CMTV says vs what The Remnant says.

I understand that you converted under Pope Benedict and that is precisely why you should get the entire story on what you're discussing before promoting what you 'think' CMTV is doing. For what they are doing is pretending to have magisterial authority to proclaim schism where none exists. Their attempt to lump traditional believing Catholics with the heretical nonsense being pushed in Germany is beyond the pale and divisive. Divisive to the point of not helping defend the Church, but quite the opposite)

There is no schism, Julie. There is an irregular situation that CMTV is fast tracking to the term 'schism' because they 'fear' what folks may do. What CMTV doesn't seem to fear is calumniating those who are not in schism. That is sinful, Julie. And the decision of Voris to act against the truth, even if he is doing so because he fears a bad outcome, is to sin. One doesn't do evil to others that good may come of it. (Ends don't justify the means.)

That is why Bishop Schneider admonished CMTV as he did. That clarification of statements from Bishop Schneider was for CMTV's benefit as they publicly refused to take them the first time.

Whatever CMTV's motive is, they are willfully engaging in unjustified ridicule and calumny. For the Society is Catholic and part of the Catholic Church, albeit suffering through an irregular juridical situation.

I pray that you move beyond the rather "new" kid on the block, that is Michael Voris, who is acting more like a headstrong teen who has just gotten his head and is running wild with it. Maturity, that is Catholic maturity, not unbridled zeal, must reign. That is Catholic. Not attempting to play magisterium because you want to vilify those with a deeper understanding of the roots of this crisis within the Church.

Connecticut Catholic Corner said...

Greetings Veritas Augustine!
Are those our only options?

-----
Greetings J!
And here I thought the 'sticking point' was illicit Sacraments!

------

Greetings Patty!
I appreciate you thinking I didn't do my homework, that I saw Pope Benedict and ran to the Catholic Church. *sigh*
I did my homework- for years before I walked into my old priests office and told him I wanted to be Catholic. I didn't learn from post Vatican II writings, I learned from writings 100+ years old- THAT is how I fell in love with the Catholic Church.

I HATE that we have the Novus Ordo Mass, but I accept the Authority Christ gave His Church and I accept that the Novus Ordo (as rotten as it is) is indeed a VALID Mass.

I pray every day for the Church to do an about-face and return to the Mass as it was prior to 1960 and I will continue to pray for that until the day I die or the Church does in fact correct the horrid Mass we have today for a more reverent and holy Mass that the Catholic laity are starving for.

Hope that clears things up for you. It's about submitting to Church Authority for me- something I learned to accept when I left protestantism behind for Christ's Holy Catholic Church.


In Christ,

Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner




Marie F said...

This is one of the sickest, most twisted rationales and analysis of the SSPX situation I have ever seen.

You, the author, cannot see the absurdity of your position?

The SSPX is simply Catholicism before THE Modernism that all previous Popes issued repeated anathemas and warning Encyclical about came and flooded the Church with its errors after the floodgates were opened at Vatican II; they have been a lifeboat for decades during the post-Conciliar debacle and you say that they are a TEMPTATION??!!

What.....souls starving for the Faith in areas of the country where the desert of Catholicism is so severe that one risks loss of faith without access to the Catholicism of the Ages are yielding to a temptations by attending SSPX Chapels to safeguard their souls? Are you serious? You actually believe God is of that opinion?

Have you even studied the Canon Laws which would supply jurisdiction under those circumstances?

My dear, frankly you are way out of your depth and I suggest you stop taking such a position publicly on such matters.

S. Armaticus said...

What you fail to understand is that the SSPX never left the Catholic Church. There is no "leaving" nor is there any "coming back", nor is there any partial "coming back". Catholicism don't work that way.

You either are or you are not. You either are in communion or your are not in communion. If you believe everything that the Catholic Church has always taught, then you are Catholic. The SSPX has always believed everything the Catholic Church has ever taught (doctrinal), therefore they are Catholic.

As far as the disciplinary issue is concerned, no Catholic is asked to believe anything else than what has always been taught. And the pope can't make anyone believe otherwise. The rest of the Church is learning this lesson now. And it is about time!


S.Armaticus

Connecticut Catholic Corner said...

They left "licit" Sacraments for "illicit" Sacraments.

I look forward to the day beyond the "Year of Mercy" which will give them a LICIT Sacrament of Confession for ONE YEAR of Mercy. While that one Sacrament will be licit for a year of mercy, the others are still illicit. That's the problem.

In Christ,

Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

Chris Kusnell said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Chris Kusnell said...

If any of this is true, Francis will, at some point this year, have to deal with the FSSP. If the plan is to draw Catholics seeking the real Holy Mass away from the Church and rid himself of the anti-modernists, he won't leave them an "out" at the end of his Year of Mercy that keeps them in communion with Rome. I would expect to start seeing the FSSP/TLM churches closed, and their land sold, under the guise of some sort of financial crisis within the next year.

john said...

SSPX are Catholic, end of story. They do not teach anything contrary to the doctrine of almost 2000 years. The N.O. came about through the work of Freemason clergy and Protestant "advisors." The SSPX remain loyal to the Magesterium, the deposit of Faith, they just don't follow the poisonous teachings of the current hiearchy which are endangering countless souls and leading to massive loss of faith. Paul himself warns to not listen to anyone preaching a different gospel than originally passed on by Christ and the apostles, especially if it comes from corrupted clerics.

john said...

SSPX are Catholic, end of story. They do not teach anything contrary to the doctrine of almost 2000 years. The N.O. came about through the work of Freemason clergy and Protestant "advisors." The SSPX remain loyal to the Magesterium, the deposit of Faith, they just don't follow the poisonous teachings of the current hiearchy which are endangering countless souls and leading to massive loss of faith. Paul himself warns to not listen to anyone preaching a different gospel than originally passed on by Christ and the apostles, especially if it comes from corrupted clerics.

Patty said...

Julie, again, this is not about 'me' or 'you' thinking you didn't do your homework or falling in 'love' with the Latin Mass. This is about understanding that the Pope also has an obligation to adhere to Canon law.

You seem to think, as promoted by CMTV, that the Pope is the maker, breaker of every law. This is not Catholic, but rather the false perception Protestants promote to keep many from joining the Catholic Church.

So while you fell in love and want to obey, there is such a thing as true and false obedience. That is why Cardinal Burke as let it be known that should events proceed to the point wherein the Synod breaks from the Deposit of the Faith, he will resist.

Will that mean he is in schism? No. Will that mean he is disobedient to the Pope? No. Julie, you need to do more homework and do it at the right source, not the source that is promoting error out of fear that the classroom will empty when algebra is being taught correctly down the hall. After all, it is Our Lord who is the truth.

And again, you should look to understand the history and hijacking/politicking that went on with regard to the promotion of the Novus Ordo Missae. Today we have the internet to speak of Cardinal Burke's proposed resistance to Synod shenanigans. This was not the case in the '60s, but that does not imply that such backroom dealings were not the order of the day.

That is why promoting for world consumption that which is half baked (a la CMTV) is divisive. Michael Voris, contrary to what Bishop Schneider directly asked of him twice and publicly, is choosing to divide and vilify. That is a sin, Julie, one for which he will have to account. And not only to the countless former financial supporters who are faithful Catholics who once supported him - the same who are summarily ridiculed and subsequently black balled from CMTV discussion boards by ill prepared moderators who are more idealogue and green behind the ears than anything else.

I hope that clears matters up for you, but I doubt it. Christine Niles and Voris are expert now in creating the media impression of being 'the' authority. Sad really. For there is a fight brewing. True division and the enemy is out in droves as Hilary White implied by her post. And yet, CMTV is still out there tagging themselves as the elite faithful who know the truth. But by whose authority, Julie? Even Voris isn't obedient to his lawful bishop.

At this point, you seriously have to ask yourself if CMTV would throw Cardinal Burke under the bus should he have to resist post October. So while you use capital letters to state VALID, you need to understand that the Society also accepts the Novus Ordo Missae as valid. But, Julie, valid does not mean holy and/or good for the building up of the faith. For if the rite is deficient and yet Our Lord is there, the Catholics in attendance are taught by example to dismiss, disrespect, and/or undermine the Lord in the very act of supposedly honoring him.

THAT is what you seem incapable of grasping, due no doubt by the doubling, tripling down of the absurd by CMTV who, sorry, didn't do this bizarre turn around until a certain individual with deep pockets bought a certain warehouse. It is "silly" not to recognize the timeline. No matter how often Michael Voris attempts to spin the tale. That is why time honored, traditional Catholics are looking to him with sadness for he could have been such a force for good - but something went terribly wrong.

But again, unchecked zeal, that which often attends a conversion/reversion is a dangerous thing. Pray God he gets some solid guidance on this issue, guidance not influenced by the illusion of being 'the' savior.

Patty said...

....also, Julie, your legalism regarding licit vs illicit is distressing. Despite what you have been led to believe, there is also such a thing as unjust persecution from the top down. That is what is happening, friend.

That is what the faithful are coming to realize as the hierarchy misuses authority to foist that which is damaging to the faith on the people. Catholics are not required to engage in that which abrades their Faith, Julie. (Understand that the Old Testament is a foreshadowing of the new. Reread Macabees and understand that those who fled to the hills were not unfaithful, but rather doing what was needed to preserve their Faith and their children. This is a laudable act, Julie. And precisely why CMTV's decrying those who fled to the hills to preserve the Faith as schismatic is absurd to anyone who has a solid grasp of Catholicism. But it seems CMTV preys upon fear and steeping that fear. Something that will leave the vulnerable without much needed allies. Very foolish.)

Again, your notion of papal authority and what constitutes Catholic obedience, while vital to be sure, seems to have been formed beneath a Protestant spirit. For Catholics are called to obey in all matters but sin (That goes for the Holy Father, too). Even a child cannot be accused of breaking the 4th commandment if he is old enough to discern that what his parent has demanded he do represents an offense against God.

So if you came to Catholicism by reading that which came before VII, I suggest you reread it for context and without the filter of CMTV telling you what 'they' think it means. There is no authority there. And, if you'll note, they are tossing everyone and his brother to the wind when their ridiculous assertions are called out. Not even allowing for an open debate/discussion with those they misrepresent.

Dymphna said...

I've never had anything to do with the SSPX but Michael Voris and his people are starting to look like Captain Ahab and the SSPX is looking better and better to me every day. I go to an diocesan indult Mass which would not exist at all if it wasn't for them.

J said...

Thanks, for your answer, Julie. I am not a theologian, and I really don´t exactly understand what an "illicit" Sacrament is, or mean to be, opere operato.
Because, if it is invalid means that we don´t receive the Grace, but if it is illicit depends, opere operantis, on the way that we receive it (as far as I know). I don´t go to the SSPX because that would be, or could be, a rebellious act in my particular case, and could be scandal for others. But that is my case, and it is different from the ones that belong to the SSPX bona fide since the beginning, or to that people that was raised into that Catholic community.
whoa...its difficult to say this in English. Hope you understand and forgive me (validly)

Barbara said...

Dear Julie,

I just joined the SSPX a year ago after much discernment (I too am in CT). One thing that has struck me after listening to their sermons and getting to know the priests very well is that they don't have the desire to 'recruit' in the sense that you imply in your post. They also don't spend much time talking about VII or the horrors of the Novus Ordo Church. They are simply Catholic priests trying to save souls. After years of analyzing the situation, and after the election of Pope Francis (the best advertisement for the SSPX and not for the reason that you stated), I was at peace with the fact that we are definitely in a state of emergency now and, if the Church's raison d'ĂȘtre is the saving of souls, then the SSPX are perfectly obedient. You even mentioned in a couple of posts that you had a priest in a parish refuse to hear your confession - well, some of us are tired of that attitude, which isn't Christ-like at all. I can't tell you how many priests have told me in confession that contraception is not a sin and I have had countless friends and family told in confessionals around the country that contraception, sterilization, and abortion are not sins. Many of them continue to engage in those behaviors and receive Communion. If you think that's ok and better than going to a faithful SSPX priest, I would beg to differ. Countless souls are being lost and I now have the indescribable grief of having one of my children, who was raised in the Novus Ordo because I was trying to be obedient, leaving the Faith. She bought into all the indifferentism despite our best efforts. As was mentioned above by Patty, Catholics are supposed to be obedient to Christ, not any given Pope. The Pope is also required to be obedient to Christ and, if he isn't, we follow Christ. That doesn't make us disobedient, but faithful. The Novus Ordo is illicit - it was forced on the Church by a pope that exceeded his authority and did something disobedient. It's not even in conformity with VII and what was agreed on there. It is not appropriate worship for God Almighty and He hasn't blessed it with any fruits, only weeds and thorns. I know that you wrote out of a deep concern for the Church and the Faith, but you need to look at the long view here and that is that the future of the Church is with Her Tradition, preserved by the SSPX. The orders of Christ the King and the FSSP would not exist without the SSPX and I do believe that, someday, they will all unite and continue together to teach and preserve the Faith. And countless persecuted Novus Ordo priests (there is one former New York Archdiocese monsignor with the SSPX in CT as we speak) will find a haven and be able to minister to souls in peace. If you look at those who are in 'full communion', the LCWR, Cardinal Wuerl, Cardinal Dolan, you must see that something is wrong and upside down. How about the open homosexual Msgr. Ricca promoted by Francis to host of Santa Marta? This is why the Church supplies jurisdiction in emergencies - because souls must be saved and, as Archbishop Lefebvre said, "I have handed down that which I have received". He just wanted to continue the Catholic priesthood. I beg you to see that the real danger is this upcoming Synod, called and planned by the Pope and no one else, that threatens a true Schism. What will Novus Ordo priests and Catholics do after that if they are told that adulterers and homosexuals must be given the Body and Blood of Christ? Will they 'obey'? Should any of us be supporting the evil charities of the diocesan structures that spread contraception, abortion, homosexuality, and the flood of illegal immigrants (which the bishops are getting payoffs for)? If you want to come to Mass with me next Sunday, I would be happy to bring you along and let you see for yourself how 'ordinary' the SSPX really are! God bless you, Barbara

Jason Liuzza said...

This is an absurd, obtuse analysis. A waste of five minutes to read it.

Joe Potillor said...

It seems to me both sides in this war are wrong, I'll flesh out some thoughts on my own blog later...I'm not someone who supports the SSPX (I'm Eastern Catholic), but I do think this situation needs to be looked at in a measured way...

The SSPX are not schismatic objectively. Why is this? Well, they are praying for the Pope by name, and the local Bishop by name. I do not know why CMTV is attacking on this point...They are not excommunicated. (Of course neither are the Orthodox, but they are in schism because they do not acknowledge the legal matter of jurisdiction of the Pope, and they do not pray for the Pope by name in their Liturgy)....Their situation is entirely a legal situation. (Not a matter of Divine Law)...They do not have a canonical status within the Church Universal...(Local situations are entirely different, and that's where the confusion comes in)

Of course, where they (SSPX) are wrong is taking matters of the Church into their own hands. This is not how the Church works. The channels may be slow, and quite tedious, but they are there for a reason, so that we do not become our own Magisterium. Their criticisms are valid, and their concerns are rather good ones, but they should not have taken matters into their own hands and done so.

Obedience is greater than sacrifice, this is true, but it's also true, that obedience is not blind. Just because the hierarchy say jump, does not necessarily imply we automatically go how high. Fortunately there's the internet now, so the clergy can't take advantage of the ignorance of the laity. It's important that obedience be in line with God's law....but the question becomes how is that determined.

The important thing is to never take our eyes of Christ amidst the storm. Peace be with you :)


Patty said...

Joe, with all due respect, when you write:

"...Of course, where they (SSPX) are wrong is taking matters of the Church into their own hands. This is not how the Church works."

There is provision in Canon law for taking matters into one's own hands in time of crisis. This is precisely how the Church works in time of crisis. What is at issue here is, "if", there is/was a crisis that would provide for the Societies having supplied jurisdiction resulting from a state of necessity.

And whereas many fear monger and/or state today that "they" do not see a need or crisis because there is the FSSP or ICK, or diocesan access to traditional Catholic sacraments, what they do not acknowledge is that at the time Archbishop Levefbre acted, none of these entities existed. Catholic tradition and, in fact, opposition to the vagaries of VII documents that have proven problematic by the evidence of rotten fruit, would not have come about had His Excellency caved into the now obvious pressure of those who hijacked VII itself.

To say, he should have trusted Providence to provide is to ignore that it is highly probably - and evidenced by the resulting protection of Catholic tradition - that his act was precisely one of trust in Divine Providence and God's promise to Holy Mother Church. (For you are correct, Joe. Obedience is not to be blind, but rather in line with God's law.)

That is why the stone throwing or casting judgement (when we're snug today) is rather looking a gift horse (and perhaps God's chosen gift horse) in the mouth.

So no, the Society does not act in accordance with how the Church "usually" works, but the Church has not been working according to Her usual mode. And that, Joe, is the crisis. As to proof there being no schism, it goes far deeper than the pictures of the Holy Father and praying for him in the mass. It is a matter of treating the Pope as the Pope, while at the same time drawing the line at obeying anything and everything that could be construed as dismissive or and/or obscuring obedience to God and the Deposit of the Faith.

This crisis of the Synod's is the natural product of compromise and the agreed upon obfuscation of Catholic doctrine (that is Truth) since the time of VII. The council didn't invent the modernist heresy, no, but it gave those who espoused it a free road to infect Holy Mother Church while claiming to be in the heretofore unheard of position of "full communion."

So all those screaming about the potential schism of the October Synods would do well to ask themselves, will all intellectual honesty, precisely "how" such a blatant attempt to pervert Christ's teachings could occur "within" the Church. And the how is VII itself - not the implementation as others have been programmed to repeat for fear of not receiving their "full communion" stamp.

Virginie said...

Dear Patty, I thought I wanted to post something after reading the nonsensical article, but you have competely covered it! I congratulate you on your level of knowledge and understanding of the SSPX. For over 30 years I have been an SSPX faithful and I could not have said it any better than you have here. It is just as well, too, because I might have said something like Michael Voris is a nincompoop. Many, many thanks, dear friend.

Veritas Augustine said...

Greetings to you as well, Connecticut Catholic Corner! No. Of course the football and clown Masses are not the only options. I suppose I was being unnecessarily flippant. Personally, I grew up in the Novus Ordo Church and I can tell you that much damage was done to me and my brothers and parents. Much division and hurt it has caused many families indeed. The new Church has left many many many families confused. We all know what has happened since Vatican II and the years of the progressive movement that lead up to it. I guess it is all just proof of what our Lady of Good Success foretold in the Seventeenth Century. Pretty amazing, eh? Getting back to the football Mass. Did you happen to see that recent video of the two priest playing catch in front of the altar with a football??? Seriously! That was a mockery and I personally don't believe those priest believe in the true presence of Christ in the eucharist....Just as Archbishop Fulton Sheen discussed in 1974. So, where do you turn if you are not comfortable with going to the SSPX? There is the FSSP which is a great option but not really many options (location wise). Also, some churches outside the FSSP will say the Tridentine Mass but far and few between. I personally assist at the Tridentine Mass with my wife and son now and I can tell you that there is a significant difference in every aspect of the supernatural at that Mass. Lex Orandi Lex Credendi! God Bless!

Patty said...

Virginie, nonsensical analyses such as these are merely the continuance of the persecution that accompanies truth like a contrail we can never touch, but just squint at from the ground. As for nincompoops, we only know what we hear.

Even at that we have to have the right spirit to analyse what we hear so that we can truly understand it. (Thank God for the Society! And thank God for Truth. All of it.)

Voris and Co. are operating under a spirit of fear - never a good thing. But often the earmark of zeal run amok. God bless you, friend.

Connecticut Catholic Corner said...

Greetings again Veritas Augustine, Christ be with you!

Yes, I did see the the "football Mass" I was the one who shared it with Pewsitter and posted it here on my blog if that is where you found it (http://connecticutcatholiccorner.blogspot.com/2015/09/catch-football-at-mass.html).

I agree, the Novus Ordo is a disaster. Here in Connecticut there are a few Church approved old rite Latin Masses (I suggest St. Martha's in Enfield, CT- https://content.parishesonline.com/bulletins/03/0969/20150913B.pdf ).

There are no FSSP options here yet- though I am praying for them to one day soon be here in Connecticut-hopefully close to me! :)

In Christ,

Julie @ Connecticut Catholic Corner

Veritas Augustine said...

Julie (Connecticut Catholic Corner,

Thank you for your blog! I do enjoy your posts. And, please keep men like me, in your prayers, that just want the truth preached (in and out of season) so that we can be good examples and leaders as husbands and fathers.

May God Bless you! And, I will pray that the FSSP may be available to you soon.

In Christ!

Kent



Guardian said...

Michael Voris and CMTV are totally wrong in their "analysis" of the SSPX. The more I've looked into all the nonsense that surrounded Vat II and the subsequent "innovations" that surround the Mass, I am convinced that Archbishop LeFebvre was simply following the same path trod by Athanasius in the 4th century.

Honestly, can anyone doubt that we're living in extraordinary circumstances that would require the exercising of the relevant canon laws mentioned above?

Here's just a few things that should really raise eyebrows, but which are completely passed over or neglected by so many mindless Catholics:

Communion in the Hand (was not there when I received my First Holy Communion and I was born a few years AFTER the Council!) On the tongue and on the knees is the NORM for the reception. There are documents out there from the Vatican which state that.

Extraordinary Ministers--this is such a ridiculous abuse of the Eucharist. WHY? Because these people's hands ARE NOT touched with the sacred chrism. They ARE NOT ORDAINED to be priests and in no way should be acting In Personae Christi. Not to mention the appearance of "concelebrating" that the assembled "ministers" give.

Music that sounds like it should belong on a TV show or in a theater or anywhere but a Church. Touchy, feely, sappy garbage, often with the congregation singing 1st person scriptural phrases that are attributed to the Lord himself. Makes it sound like the people are the deity.

Related to that--versus populum celebrating. NOT called for by the Council. Then why was it done? Makes it look like a self-referential circle between the priest and the people (cf Joseph Ratzinger). Where is the Lord? Behind the priest or worse--not even in the Church proper at all.

Communion rails desrtoyed, high back altars destroyed, artwork, paintings, stained glass removed or destroyed. None of this was called for by the Council and yet it's everywhere. How many wreckovations have been done and are still being done to our Churches? Too many to count, rivaling only the destruction brought forth by the Calvinists in the 16th century.

And, then there's the really off the wall-stuff, like clown masses, liturgical dancing and orders of nuns who've "moved beyond Jesus."

I could go on and on as I'm sure others could as well.

Personally, I would relish the opportunity to go to an SSPX chapel. I used to live in a place where I attended a diocesan TLM. Where I live now, the masses are so horrible, so filled with abuses, that my husband and I will not even present ourselves for Holy Communion because we fear that the Lord is being profaned.

Thus, I really do believe that we're living under extraordinary circumstances.

If there's a schism out there, it's coming from the heterodox left-wing of the Church. Sadly, far too many in the hierarchy are part of this (cough, the German bishops). Like the Arians, they've taken over large swaths of the Church. However, the Holy Spirit will ensure that the true Church survives, even if some members are in exile for awhile....

Veritas Augustine said...

Guardian,

I couldn't agree more.

God Bless,

Kent

Patty said...

"...May God Bless you! And, I will pray that the FSSP may be available to you soon."

And the FSSP will only be available once the diocese feels the pressure brought to bear by a vigorous SSPX. That is why this absurd rivalry, promoted more by the sheep and misguided "news" outlets, than by the priests of either the SSPX or the FSSP needs to STOP. Theirs is a symbiotic relationship and those with true Catholic understanding grasp this reality.

The FSSP, because it does not have the bishop promised by Rome back in the '80s, is reliant upon the largess of diocesan authorities. Hence, they are hated and marginalized and, too often, kept out of diocese because the move is to keep the Novus Ordo Missae. A rite crafted intentionally to downplay all that is Catholic.

https://www.ewtn.com/library/curia/reformof.htm

So all those who pretend that objection to the Novus Ordo Missae is nothing but a rejection of Papal authority, need to step back and reassess that the rite itself, not the implementation of it, opens the door to - specifically, the undermining of the Catholic Faith embedded within the mass itself.

That is why Catholics are obliged to obey in all matters but sin. That is why the Church in Her wisdom provides for acting out of necessity. Not blind submission to attending aberrations wherein children are indoctrinated by the regular profanation and/or downplaying of Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament.

That said, I wonder "why" the FSSP has never yet received their own Bishop? Could it be that the powers that be do not want to give up the pressure point of persecuting the FSSP into continual compromise? That is surely what happens when faithful adherents of the FSSP seek traditional sacraments - such as Confirmation - from their diocesan bishops. The children are forced - if they want to be Confirmed - to submit to all manner of modernist indoctrination nonsense.

If only CMTV could get over whatever glamour has been cast over them to actually report the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. But all in due time, I suppose. Pharaoh's heart was kept hardened for good reason, too.

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